The American pastime of hunting...questions

[trularin]

Way to pick a topic Glyn.

I hunt often and for reason. The meat I take is what I live on for the year. We buy very little beef or other factory meat.

I shoot deer, elk, boar when I can and other animals that fit in to the idea of "I am going to eat that, should I shoot it?"

The hunt is exciting and requires skill to be successful. The "trophies" are for me and that is why I would mount what I do. I really do not care what other think about my hunting or my trophies. They are reminders of a great experience.

For anyone reading this, if you have been a vegetable eater all of your life, great! If you eat meat, I view you no different than the man that hunts to provide for his family.

There are no "added chemicals" in my meat. There are no dyes to make it look red. There is rarely over 15% fat in the burger we process.

We butcher over 50% of our meat ourselves and use outside butchers when we do not have the time.

I believe there are three reasons people hunt:

1. For the sport.
2. Because the person can kill something ( this is not sport ).
3. For the food.

Additionally, I do not care if the person to my right hunts or if the person to my left hunts. It is my hunt and if there are more people, it is our hunt.

Ask your questions, but try, before you decide to slam, to see my point of view.

[CobraEd]

There is no skill or challenge. Hunters in USA never hunt predators only defenseless herbivors. Hunting bear with a knife would be a challenge and require skill.

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[Ron61]

Glyn,

I grew up hunting but used a rifle mostly. We only shot what we could use for food and then used the hides to make things out of. I never hunted for trophies or sports, and never from a stand. Also they do have hunts that the states arrange when a herd needs thinning out, but I never have gone on one of those as the deer or whatever it is may be sick. That is why they have those hunts is to get the overpopulation of that species down. I believe they either had one or are talking about having to have one soon on the Catalina Island as the deer population there has become so big there isn't enough food for them. I think I just enjoyed the hiking through the canyons and seeing places that few people will ever see as much as actually getting anything. And believe me, I have helped some people get a big Elk they have killed about 10 miles from any road to where they can get to it with a 4 wheeler and that is not fun.

Ron

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

There is no skill or challenge. Hunters in USA never hunt predators only defenseless herbivors. Hunting bear with a knife would be a challenge and require skill.

.

Yes, it would. With a predictable outcome, too. And since you're devoid of the understanding that man is at the top of the food chain, you clearly will never come to understand how he got there.

(By the way - your bear is a game species, hunted in most states. So much for "only defenseless herbivors.")


-Roger

[CobraEd]

(By the way - your bear is a game species, hunted in most states. So much for "only defenseless herbivors.")


-Roger[/quote]



With a knife ???



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[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

With a knife ???

Sadly, the wildlife agencies I'm familiar with seek to have the hunter successful in their (the agencies) program of wildlife management. To that end, none that I'm aware of set aside a knife season. Firearm, muzzleloader, bow, some crossbow seasons -yes, but no knife season. Not even in Virginia.

As ethical, law-abiding hunters we seek to comply with the rules and regulations each wildlife agency promulgates, and as such this means hunting with a knife would be a statutory violation of the law.

That means we'd be in trouble. With the law. Not prudent.

Surely you don't recommend we violate the law. Since this is your ideal of hunting, I recommend you petition the Virginia Game and Inland Fisheries Dept. for just such a license. Please let us know when you're successful and when you're available to show us how to successfully hunt in your preferred manner.

-Roger

[CobraEd]

?????



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[turnpike boy]

Rather than taking on a bear first, maybe you might want to go after a defenseless herbivor - like, maybe, a buck whitetail during the rut? They do only eat forage, and they're only a deer (albeit with antlers - their adaptation of a knife), and they might give you a challenge without worrying whether or not they outweigh you.

Whattya think?

[CobraEd]

I enjoy stepping on ants. That's all it takes for me to feel like a man.

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[Ron61]

Ed,

It really doesn't fall under the hunting category, but if you want a thrill bring your knife and I will take you hiking back up into some of our canyons here where we have some wild boars. They aren't the giant ones, but some people who like to go way back into these canyons have spent several hours up in trees waiting for them to get tired and leave. And they are aggressive.

Ron

[CobraEd]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275524,00.html




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[Ron61]

Ed,

We don't have anything near that size here that I have ever heard of. That thing is a monster.

Ron

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

I enjoy stepping on ants. That's all it takes for me to feel like a man.

.

You are OK in my book. I'll go hunting with you any time

[GlynMeek]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Good thread.

Glyn...the No. 7-type "hunt" you refer to is akin to folks buying Hummers, etc. for suburbia. Posers, plain and simple.

I feel 'heartened'. It would seem that everyone in here agrees that #7 is indefensible, but what is quite depressing is the number of suburban 'hunters' who seem to define this as 'sport'....ah well, takes all types

Glyn

[GlynMeek]

Originally Posted by trularin

I hunt often and for reason. The meat I take is what I live on for the year. We buy very little beef or other factory meat.

I shoot deer, elk, boar when I can and other animals that fit in to the idea of "I am going to eat that, should I shoot it?"

The hunt is exciting and requires skill to be successful.

THIS makes sense to me...everyone, thanks for taking the time to 'educate' me on this. It would seem that most folks also question the mindless 'hide killing' that I questioned. We ARE top of the food chain, that's just the way it is, it's ther other stuff that concerns me!

Glyn

[Scott S]

I am out in the woods every day and most likely have seen more game than many of you will in a lifetime. I used to hunt years ago but the thought of another day in the forest as recreation just doesn't work for me any more.

That all said I HATE hunting season, not one hunt has gone by in the last 10 years that some drunk hunter hasn't shot up something of mine in the woods. We deal with gates being torn down, theft, fuel storage tanks shot full of holes and windows shot out.

The two months starting next week are going to cost me sleep and extra wages for security just so somebody can have a so called "sport".

One new addition to the mix lately is the huge influx of Latino's out hunting, the passing on of hunting traditions from father to sons are absent with many of the new "immigrants".

I have seen groups of as many 30 banging pots and pans driving for deer with a couple of teens with rifles in wait.Later on in the day those with pistols practice their drive by skills while finishing off the last of the beer.

Scott S

[CobraEd]

http://www.buckstix.com/howitzer.htm

.

[stengun]

Howdy,

Being a farm boy from Arkansas, I've hunted about everything around here w/ a bow, handgun, muzzleloader, shotgun and/or rifle.

Huntin', The Great American Pasttime.

Sitting in an A/Ced, heated deer stand the size of a small apartment and waiting for a semi-tame farm raised deer to to came by and eat out of a food bowl so I can shoot him, well, this is not my idea of hunting.

My idea of hunting is going into the woods several weeks before the season starts and scouting the area to find were they are feeding, bedding and travelling, sitting up a simple 8' leaning tree stand made from 2"x4", or hunting from the ground. Or, even better, slipping down trails and logging roads and trying to ambush a big one!

My favorite animal to hunt is man. There is nothing like hunting an armed man. The only thing that I can think of that might come close would be to hunt a loin w/ a spear or a bear w/ a knife. Maybe.

Paul

[BeanCounter]

Sten,

You can hunt a loin with just a knife and a fork.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by GlynMeek

-- We had an interesting discussion on one of the Lounge topics about my perception that Palin likes to “kill things for a hobby”, and I was somewhat pilloried for my European view on hunting... On the premise of "when in Rome...", I would like to see if I can start to understand the American attraction to hunting and would love to hear your input.

1) I am a city boy, born and bred in Sheffield (England’s steel town). ----I do therefore understand that hunting is much more of a ‘country’ pastime than a city boy pastime, so I will concede that limitation on my part.
2) I have no problem with owning guns for protection…I have one!
3) My father was in the meat trade; I love steak, lamb, liver(!), kidneys(!), venison, pork etc. etc. I worked as meat porter on Southampton docks and as a ‘dear skinner’ for a local meat & game place during college vacations, so I am quite comfortable with dead animals and their place in the food chain…I even had a brief (VERY brief…after the first “Kosher kill”) spell working in a slaughter house, so HAVE been involved in “killing what I eat”.
4) I have even been quail and pheasant hunting here in Texas. I have to admit that I enjoyed it (LOL), and remember the guide warning us that we could “shoot at whatever we wanted, just don’t hit the dog or the truck”.
5) I can understand the allure of back-to-nature, wandering the woods with a bow and arrow (all right, perhaps even a hunting rifle) where the animal has some kind of a chance to get away, and if you eat EVERYTHING you kill, I can accept and partly understand that…BUT, there are two aspects of 'hunting' that I do NOT understand and need your help…

6) Trophy hunting…let’s find a rare (usually inedible) animal and go kill it so we can fill its head full of sawdust and then stick it on our wall so we can boast that we killed it?
7) …and the hardest one of all to understand…let’s all dress up to the nines in (often ludicrous) faux camoflage hunting gear (hats and all), erect a ‘hide’ right next to a watering hole, climb into said hide with a few beers and when the animals come for a drink of water let’s kill them “for sport”….THAT ONE is KILLING to me, NOT HUNTING…wtf is the SPORT in THAT?

So, with no need for name calling and PLEASE NO POLITICS (LOL), can you help me understand the last two?

Glyn

First of all, I believe hunting in america stems from the 1600's-1700's when people left england to come to america to form a better country, which they did, and had to provide food for themselves, i.e. hunting and trapping, farming,etc. So, since the USA is relatively a young country, there is a relatively strong background in hunting I would say to more established countries, where hunting may be viewed differently.

6) Although seeming contradictory, Actually big game hunting for trophies (like in Africa) I believe provides a great deal of money for wildlife preservation, patrolling for poachers, preserving land for wild animals, etc, so actually sacrificing some animals provides much good for the rest of the herd than by not collecting needed money from licenses. I personally eat, or my dad does, the animals I kill, and it is wrong to waste food, but how much food is really wasted in the US compared to all hunted animals whose meat is not consumed?

7) Ambush is the natural way to hunt. Big cats, crocks, birds, spiders, all animals ambush their prey. Actually, the military teaches the grunts, fighter pilots, etc, to hide, ambush your opponent before he sees you, so he doesn't kill you. There was a war called the American revolution where a group of soldiers wore bright red uniforms and stood out in the open. Their opposition dressed in brown and hid behind trees, brush, etc, so they wouldn't be seen first. A remarkable logical deduction. I guess you're one of those red coats. I bet if you try to hunt wearing a red coat out in the middle of a field, it's going to be challanging to see, let alone get a shot at any worthwhile game.