October Surprise

[VRM]

Ok, I have not had time yet to read all the stuff you guys are presenting, but I have a few questions.

1. I think somebody tried to pull the same sort of thing with McCain (he was born in Panama) and the SJC determined that only Congress can determine if the qualifications have been met.

2. This case has been granted a stay - so that nothing has been confirmed or denied.

3. What does it matter if he was born in Kenya or Hawaii? His mother was an American citizen and according to code 1401 "(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States."

So what exactly is the issue?

Steve

[J. T. Toad]

Read the arguments from the website Steve.

Your questionable reasoning is answered there.

What is at issue, is the verification of a constitutional requirement for President.

[MChat]

Originally Posted by VRM

a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

Obama was born in 1961. It appears there may have been a law change and those born before May 24, 1934 were "grandfathered" in?

Either way, I know there are laws on birth's outside of the U.S. (I.e. children of military members). Part of this lawsuit alledges that Obama (if born in Kenya) does not meet the requirements.

The other part of the suit alledges that Obama lost (gave up) his U.S. citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian citizen and naturalized in Indonesia (Indonesia at the time did not allow for dual citizenships, therefore he would have had to renounce his U.S. citizenship). On top of that, he never became a naturalized citizen.

If either of these are true, Obama is, for all intents and purposes, an illegal alien.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by MChat

Obama was born in 1961. It appears there may have been a law change and those born before May 24, 1934 were "grandfathered" in?

Either way, I know there are laws on birth's outside of the U.S. (I.e. children of military members). Part of this lawsuit alledges that Obama (if born in Kenya) does not meet the requirements.

The other part of the suit alledges that Obama lost (gave up) his U.S. citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian citizen and naturalized in Indonesia (Indonesia at the time did not allow for dual citizenships, therefore he would have had to renounce his U.S. citizenship). On top of that, he never became a naturalized citizen.

If either of these are true, Obama is, for all intents and purposes, an illegal alien.

MChat,
Sorry, I posted the wrong one:
"(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:" There is a proviso that grants physical presence to people serving in the military, or working for the government.


My understanding for somebody in Obamas case (if he could have claimed citizenship in either country) is that he would not have to declare his citizenship until he is 18 or 21. His mum could have given up her citizenship, but that would not have taken away his if he was born whilst she was a US citizen.

Either way, this is going to be interesting, but, like the McCain lawsuit, I think it will turn out to be just another bit of melodrama.

Steve

[VRM]

Ok, I did some more digging.
Under Indonesian law if Obama was adopted then he would have given up his US citizenship. If his mother was married (legally anyway) to an Indonesian then she would have given up her citizenship, but Obama would have kept his if he was not adopted.

This is shaping up to be something rather interesting.

Steve

[MChat]

Originally Posted by VRM

MChat,
Sorry, I posted the wrong one:
"(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:" There is a proviso that grants physical presence to people serving in the military, or working for the government.


My understanding for somebody in Obamas case (if he could have claimed citizenship in either country) is that he would not have to declare his citizenship until he is 18 or 21. His mum could have given up her citizenship, but that would not have taken away his if he was born whilst she was a US citizen.

Either way, this is going to be interesting, but, like the McCain lawsuit, I think it will turn out to be just another bit of melodrama.

Steve

From another forum, I guess it has something to do with Obama's mother's age when he was born that she doesn't qualify with the above. Perhaps she didn't live in the U.S. for 2 or more years after she turned 14?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by MChat

From another forum, I guess it has something to do with Obama's mother's age when he was born that she doesn't qualify with the above. Perhaps she didn't live in the U.S. for 2 or more years after she turned 14?

It's quite possible. I don't know the timeline. I may have to go look it up once my curiosity gets the better of me.

And Turnpike Boy may have a point...this trip to see his grandmother has...interesting...timing.

I don't trust a damn thing that any politican does, but if you look at who would benefit from this then McCain and Clinton certainly top the list. And just because it is a DNC lawyer causing the ruckus does not automatically mean that Clinton is behind it.

We will see - either way it looks like something will shake out very soon. Leave it to the DNC to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[MChat]

Originally Posted by VRM

And just because it is a DNC lawyer causing the ruckus does not automatically mean that Clinton is behind it.

Rumor has it, Berg is/was a Clinton supporter; not only that but the Judge was supposedly appointed by Bill Clinton. I have no idea how one would verify that info though.

Perhaps Hitlary would rather have Obama lose or be disqualified so she can run again in 2012?

This whole thing smells of dirty politics... smart of the McCain camp to just stay out of it.

[wtm442]

Yes, Berg is a Democrat

Yes, the judge was appointed by Clinton, but he is a lifelong registered Republican. Nothing wrong with this picture.

Regarding Obama's trip to Hawaii. Give the man a break guys ... his grandmother is very ill and may die.

Of course its best for McCain to stay out of this mess. It could blow the lid off this election and make the ACORN scandal look like a prank ... or it could be absolutely nothing. Just wait and see what happens.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by MChat

Rumor has it, Berg is/was a Clinton supporter; not only that but the Judge was supposedly appointed by Bill Clinton. I have no idea how one would verify that info though.

Perhaps Hitlary would rather have Obama lose or be disqualified so she can run again in 2012?

This whole thing smells of dirty politics... smart of the McCain camp to just stay out of it.

I would not put it past Clinton to do this sort of thing. And I am not convinced that McCain did not have a hand in it either - possibly in cahoots with Clinton to take down a common enemy. Politics makes strange bedfellows. This is all speculation as none of us have enough info to go beyond that.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

First to VRM - WOW, you are showing your lame side, big time - but, not a problem - it's a huge buggerin' part of you.


The players: United States District Court Judge, Honorable R. Barclay Surrick was a Clinton appointee, and Berg was a Hillary Clinton supporter. He filed the suit just after Hillary lost the nomination (on her behalf ?) He seems to know what he’s doing and is doggedly pursuing every angle to get the real and authentic Kenyan birth certificate.

HONOLULU, HI)(October 22, 2008) Internet powerhouse Andy Martin told a Honolulu news conference today that after an intense international investigation he is convinced that Barack Obama, Junior, the presidential candidate is really the son of Obama's controversial mentor Frank Marshall Davis.

"Mendacious adults 'switched' Obama at birth. That is why he has refused to allow access to the original or 'vault' birth certificate," Martin told a Honolulu news conference. "We believe the original certificate did not list a father. Barack Obama became the father as a result of an agreement between Ann Dunham, Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama, Sr.

"Davis was already married to a White Woman. He did not need a nonmarital child by a second one. Ann probably refused to have what was then called a 'back alley' abortion. Davis may have felt that 'Obama' would face less stigma with an 'African' background than a Negro one. The civil rights revolution, of course, turned that gambit upside down. In discovering and understanding what happened we cannot forget we are dealing with events in 1961, not 2008.

"The irony in all of this is that Obama once stated he did not want his daughters to be 'victimized' with a child. And he is alive because his mother took the contrary view.

"Barack Obama has known this since adulthood, and the shock of this discovery still reverberates in his psyche.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

HONOLULU, HI)(October 22, 2008) Internet powerhouse Andy Martin told a Honolulu news conference today that after an intense international investigation he is convinced that Barack Obama, Junior, the presidential candidate is really the son of Obama's controversial mentor Frank Marshall Davis.

"Mendacious adults 'switched' Obama at birth. That is why he has refused to allow access to the original or 'vault' birth certificate," Martin told a Honolulu news conference. "We believe the original certificate did not list a father. Barack Obama became the father as a result of an agreement between Ann Dunham, Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama, Sr.

"Davis was already married to a White Woman. He did not need a nonmarital child by a second one.

"Barack Obama has known this since adulthood, and the shock of this discovery still reverberates in his psyche.

So,Obama really is a Ba$turd.

[SP01715]

Savage will have the former attorney general of PA. on in the next 1/2 hour. He is a lifelong democrat and has filed a lawsuit stating Obama was born in Kenya. Should be interesting.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

So,Obama really is a Ba$turd.

Hmmmm.......interesting way to look at it - the buzz is that there is, at the very least, something very embarrassing relating to the birth certificate and that is why Obama and his troops do not want it released to the public. Releasing it is such a minor issue, normally.

Obama really does appear to be the Manchurian Candidate with a mystery at every turn. His mother adds to the mystery - what a piece of work she must have been with her parents, at least in pictures, looking like the salt of the earth type American couple - man, does Obama's grandmother have a tale to tell, or what? But, she's not talking. Even the fact that the grandmother has not been seen in public, but has been depicted as racist by Obama adds to the complete mystery relating to a person that just could be the next POTUS. Double YIKES!

By the way, can anyone here even imagine what Obama thinks about anyone that owns a Cobra? We'll just need to gather up the liberal Cobra owners and have them deliver their rides to the homeless to live in - that should satisfy Obama, initially.

[SP01715]

He says that he has Obama's paternal grandmother on tape saying he was born in Kenya and she was in the delivery room.

Here is a link to the website outlining the lawsuit. This might get good.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGklbR_Q...amacrimes.com/