Redistribution of Wealth

[cobra de capell]

And please show me where Sen. Obama has promised to "issue checks" to those who have earned no income.

BO's plan calls for issuing checks to those that earned income, but did not pay fed tax. In other words - a welfare payment in theory to offset payroll taxes (SS and Medicare).

[VRM]

Clay,
McCains campaign (and folks here) are using one of the 'Bad Words' of American politics in order to associate Obama with un-American thinking.

I'm sure you know that the Constitution did not declare that have a capitalist or socialist government, but it only defined how that government was to operate. The perfect capitalist society would have all of us be slaves, but then there would be no markets; the perfect socialist society would have all of us with equal incomes, but then there would be no drive to excel and build additional wealth.

CdC is right about the tax credit for SS and medicare. However, Obamas tax plan, for the most part, is a big stimulus package that I'm sure the GOP will repeal as soon as they can.

Welcome to the mess...try not to get yourself banned!

Steve

[clayfoushee]

Originally Posted by VRM

Welcome to the mess...try not to get yourself banned!

Steve

Steve, it's only temporary. I had a few spare minutes on my hands this morning, and decided to have a little fun as in the "old days." However, life is too short to argue with people who do not take the time to either educate or think for themselves.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by clayfoushee

Steve, it's only temporary. I had a few spare minutes on my hands this morning, and decided to have a little fun as in the "old days." However, life is too short to argue with people who do not take the time to either educate or think for themselves.

I suspected as much. Nice to have somebody else recognise the history and call people on their inconsistencies.
I enjoy the arguments - it gives me added inspiration to slog through reading all kinds of government reports and stats. I've already got all the Ferrari 250TRs and GTO memorised by chassis numbers - why not learn some tax stats as well, right?

[jhv48]

Can everyone say "Tea Party"?

Maybe we need another one!

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

Clay,
McCains campaign (and folks here) are using one of the 'Bad Words' of American politics in order to associate Obama with un-American thinking.

I'm sure you know that the Constitution did not declare that have a capitalist or socialist government, but it only defined how that government was to operate. The perfect capitalist society would have all of us be slaves, but then there would be no markets; the perfect socialist society would have all of us with equal incomes, but then there would be no drive to excel and build additional wealth.

CdC is right about the tax credit for SS and medicare. However, Obamas tax plan, for the most part, is a big stimulus package that I'm sure the GOP will repeal as soon as they can.

Welcome to the mess...try not to get yourself banned!

Steve

associate Obama with un-American thinking?

The audio recording of Barack Obama espousing his socialist philosophy of “redistribution of wealth” is all over the Internet and Fox News today (although the other media outlets are ignoring it), but there’s another disturbing section on that tape that has so far escaped notice.


The link to the audio is here: Chicago Public Radio - Audio Library: Odyssey.
http://www.wbez.org/audio_library/od_rajan01.asp#010118

At about 15:30, Obama compares what was going on in the United States during the time of Brown vs. the Board of Education to ... Nazi Germany. Yes, really. Here’s the quote:

“...just to take a, sort of a realist perspective...there’s a lot of change going on outside of the Court, um, that, that judges essentially have to take judicial notice of. I mean you’ve got World War II, you’ve got uh, uh, uh, the doctrines of Nazism, that, that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home.”

There you have it. America is close to electing a President that compares his own country to Nazi Germany.

Liberals have become so crass, so ignorant of history, and so idealogically blinded that we can now call them "National Socialists" without them realizing that we just painted them as NAZIs.

We called Obama a socialist because he definitely is one. We've been countered with, "What's wrong with socialism?"

Now we can simply call them National Socialists. They don't even KNOW we've just called them NAZIs.

[VRM]

Well, Goodwin...here we come...

CdC, I'm sure you are familiar with Jesse Owens. If you are not then look him up. Germany did everything they could to marginalise blacks, jews, gypsies, gays, and anybody else who did not fit in the Aryan Christian mould.

At the time mainstream America also looked down on many of those groups. A perfect example is the Tuskeegee airmen who had to work x-times as hard to get the same respect as white pilots. America did not set out to exterminate those groups, so if America is compared to Germany in the '40s we compare favourably, but because we did not treat minorities as equals we do not rate perfectly in that comparison.
In 1954 things were better, but still not perfect. And being an Aryan looking guy myself I have never been on the receiving end of the sort of racism that Obama has probably had to deal with. In the movie 'We Were Soldiers' there is a segment where all the wives are sitting around discussing how to get things done, and one of the more naive women asks where the others do the rest of their laundry because the laundromat she goes to will only do t-shirts, socks, and briefs. They look at her with a puzzled expression, and she explains that the laundromat has a sign in the window that says 'No Coloureds'. They all immediately look at the wife of one of the soldiers (she is black) and everything gets very uncomfortable. Now I was too young to remember anything like that, but that was late '60s, and I have certainly seen pictures.

Fast forward to today - now the bad guys are Muslims and gays, though there are still people who are holding on to older prejudices, as evidenced by the two who were caught planning to kill Obama as a cap to a killing spree of blacks.

So if Obama compares the US and Germany in WW2 it is not that he is trying to emulate Germany. That would be suicidal, and I really doubt that is his goal. Sounds to me like he would be trying to do what he can to fix a problem that he would most likely be a lot more personal to him than to either one of us. Maybe you would be better off calling him a Tuskeegee airman as he seems to want to fight racism at home.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

Well, Goodwin...here we come...

CdC, I'm sure you are familiar with Jesse Owens. If you are not then look him up. Germany did everything they could to marginalise blacks, jews, gypsies, gays, and anybody else who did not fit in the Aryan Christian mould.

At the time mainstream America also looked down on many of those groups. A perfect example is the Tuskeegee airmen who had to work x-times as hard to get the same respect as white pilots. America did not set out to exterminate those groups, so if America is compared to Germany in the '40s we compare favourably, but because we did not treat minorities as equals we do not rate perfectly in that comparison.
In 1954 things were better, but still not perfect. And being an Aryan looking guy myself I have never been on the receiving end of the sort of racism that Obama has probably had to deal with. In the movie 'We Were Soldiers' there is a segment where all the wives are sitting around discussing how to get things done, and one of the more naive women asks where the others do the rest of their laundry because the laundromat she goes to will only do t-shirts, socks, and briefs. They look at her with a puzzled expression, and she explains that the laundromat has a sign in the window that says 'No Coloureds'. They all immediately look at the wife of one of the soldiers (she is black) and everything gets very uncomfortable. Now I was too young to remember anything like that, but that was late '60s, and I have certainly seen pictures.

Fast forward to today - now the bad guys are Muslims and gays, though there are still people who are holding on to older prejudices, as evidenced by the two who were caught planning to kill Obama as a cap to a killing spree of blacks.

So if Obama compares the US and Germany in WW2 it is not that he is trying to emulate Germany. That would be suicidal, and I really doubt that is his goal. Sounds to me like he would be trying to do what he can to fix a problem that he would most likely be a lot more personal to him than to either one of us. Maybe you would be better off calling him a Tuskeegee airman as he seems to want to fight racism at home.

Steve

What a huge load of codswallow, VRM - I really don't care to assume what Obama is thinking - he's at best a National Socialist - besides, what he has had to endure in his lifetime doesn't give him authority or the thinking pattern to install 'stuff' that he believes will make things right for every soul in America. He needs to be rejected.

[clayfoushee]

And that would be similar to what Ronald Reagan did in 1986 when he signed legislation which greatly expanded the size of the earned income credit. The credit resulted in a larger tax refund for lower income people, which was, of course, A CHECK. He didn't call it a "welfare payment," and he was not accused of being a socialist.

Bush gave $750 ($1500 per couple) to poor people, and less or nothing to those more well off. He wasn't called a Socialist, and it wasn't called welfare.

But I digress . . . the reason certain people have earned income, but pay no tax is in part due to legislation provided by the Reagan Administration.

[NeoConMan]

Originally Posted by clayfoushee

And that would be similar to what Ronald Reagan did in 1986 when he signed legislation which greatly expanded the size of the earned income credit. The credit resulted in a larger tax refund for lower income people, which was, of course, A CHECK. He didn't call it a "welfare payment," and he was not accused of being a socialist.

Bush gave $750 ($1500 per couple) to poor people, and less or nothing to those more well off. He wasn't called a Socialist, and it wasn't called welfare.

But I digress . . . the reason certain people have earned income, but pay no tax is in part due to legislation provided by the Reagan Administration.

Your oversimplification and vilification of T. Roosevelt, Bush, Reagan and other Republicans leaves a rather large and obvious hole in your logic.

Let me spin it my way briefly, see if you don't completely disagree.
Reagan, Bush, and Roosevelt were pandering to the Left.
Yes, the Art of the Deal and the Spirit of Compromise are alive and well in politics.

I got none of those benefits, but I paid for them - same as you.
Reagan did some stupid things, as much as I admire him I will admit it.
Mariel Boatlift, anybody? Much of our illegal immigration trouble is tied to that.

Roosevelt was imperfect, though widely regarded as a man's man and a savvy politician.
He did stupid stuff before and after office, nearly killed him.

Bush got my vote FOUR TIMES.
(I was in Texas when he was Governor)
His second term has been terribly disappointing to me, I fear McCain may be worse.

I ask you to think about this;
Compare these men to ANY of the Defeatocrats in office in the last 43 years I've been alive.

Can you imagine where we would be, how many American lives would have been lost now if Al Gore was in the White House on September 11, 2001?
I'll go to my grave believing this little economic snafu brought on by the Dems is nothing compared to the Depression we would have been in since 2002.

Nobody would even remember October 1929, the 1930's or the Dust Bowl.
We would have far surpassed ALL of that with Gore trying to run the economy and the environment.

[Jamo]

Hi Buddy!

[clayfoushee]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Hi Buddy!

Hi Buddy

[mdmull]

Corporate income taxes are in fact, the flattest tax as all consumers of the product produced pay for them, even the poor.(although they may pay them with MY money).

"Redistribution" and progressive taxes are not quite synonomous. Progressive taxes take more from the higher income earner, to fill the coffers of the government, to fund the functions thereof. Redistribution then awards some of that higher amount to the lower earners. distribute - to divide & give out shares. Hence the association of "distribute the wealth" with socialism - take from the rich & give to the poor. emphasis on "take"

[clayfoushee]

Originally Posted by mdmull

Corporate income taxes are in fact, the flattest tax as all consumers of the product produced pay for them, even the poor.(although they may pay them with MY money).

"Redistribution" and progressive taxes are not quite synonomous. Progressive taxes take more from the higher income earner, to fill the coffers of the government, to fund the functions thereof. Redistribution then awards some of that higher amount to the lower earners. distribute - to divide & give out shares. Hence the association of "distribute the wealth" with socialism - take from the rich & give to the poor. emphasis on "take"

And I ask again, what does the earned income credit do except to give more money to lower income people.....same as a check? Where did the tax dollars to pay for that come from? Who signed that bill?

And where did the $750 "economic stimulus check" lower income people received from George Bush's Treasury Dept. a few months back come from? Whose proposal was that and who signed it?

Why did I not receive a single penny from that, although I paid for a larger share of it than those who did receive it?

That is redistribution of income, no matter how you try to BS it, and the R's have espoused it equally with the Ds since the early 1900s.

[Rick Parker]

Why get excited, isn't that what our wives have been doing to us for years???

[Silverback51]

I will sure be glad when this election is over.

And I will never understand why anyone argues about this. Your odds of convincing anyone that differs from your opinion is about the same as changing lead to gold. Short version is, it's not going to happen.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

I will sure be glad when this election is over.

And I will never understand why anyone argues about this. Your odds of convincing anyone that differs from your opinion is about the same as changing lead to gold. Short version is, it's not going to happen.

True, but only relating to those arguing - but, there is always a possibility that someone is lurching around that may be influenced by codswallow, therefore - one must challenge it whenever possibly, over and over again - it's not fun, but someone has got to do it.

In other words - the dreaded huge buggerin' wankers will take over if they are not pointed out as huge buggerin' wankers.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

True, but only relating to those arguing - but, there is always a possibility that someone is lurching around that may be influenced by codswallow, therefore - one must challenge it whenever possibly, over and over again - it's not fun, but someone has got to do it.

In other words - the dreaded huge buggerin' wankers will take over if they are not pointed out as huge buggerin' wankers.

That is absolutely true CdC (except for your syntax which is very Bush-like). That's why I have not started a single one of the election year propaganda posts here, and why I keep responding to the propaganda that you and others post. Gotta do what I can to save those folks who might be 'lurching' around like Frankenstein zombies.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

That is absolutely true CdC (except for your syntax which is very Bush-like). That's why I have not started a single one of the election year propaganda posts here, and why I keep responding to the propaganda that you and others post. Gotta do what I can to save those folks who might be 'lurching' around like Frankenstein zombies.

Sounds good VRM - and I'll work on that syntax thing and comparing me to Bush is like coming in first place, thanks.

Please, carry on - post all you want - basically, you are the entertainment around here, sort of like Combes on Hannity's show on Fox - you are always good for a laugh.

[cobra bill]

Oh there you go again, you forgot the space between Cobra and Bill the real cobrabill is going to get his feathers ruffled again!