Redistribution of Wealth

[NeoConMan]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

1% of that top 5% made there fortune as a result of this war, and I suspect more have, on the blood of those that can't afford to do anything but join the military, to get a start in life, they are paying a high price for the few that are profiting!
Personally I think war profiteering should be a crime!

Really?
What exactly do YOU do for a living?

Originally Posted by cobra bill

I train soldiers

Mind-boggling admission....



War profiteering should be a crime?

Originally Posted by cobra bill

So yes we do all need to pitch in and work to make this country better, but the way I see it for the past 30 years of giving tax breaks for the wealthiest has not work to keep a strong middle class, and no country can be great without a strong middle class, all you have is another Mexico.

There are so many things wrong with what you've posted here - I don't know where to begin.
Do you seriously think you will ever get Americans to buy into your line of thinking?
You'll need the charisma and sex appeal of Obama for starters...



I heard awhile back that Mexico has more millionaires than Switzerland.
They certainly have the natural resources to rival the United States, and the ability to solicit technology from around the globe to use it wisely - but they are so corrupt that the working class has no hope of ever rising above their station in life. Those below that level in their society have resigned themselves to a subsistence type livelihood for centuries, little has changed for any of them.
Show me another nation on this planet that has a middle class as large and affluent as ours.
Seriously, at any time in history has there ever been anything like we enjoy?
And it just ain't good enough....


To sum it up for me, if you feel the American Way is so unfair and imperfect there are literally dozens of nations already doing it your way.
Try to duplicate your life, career, family, prosperity, health, home and anything else under the conditions THEY offer.

Do you have any idea why our forefathers left Olde Europe to start with?

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by NeoConMan

Do you have any idea why our forefathers left Olde Europe to start with?

Now, where can we all go? Most of the Earth is already crawling with people!

I hear Siberia is pretty open.

[BeanCounter]

I feel so much better now. I think I saw a ray of light highlighting me afterwards.

[cobra de capell]

[VRM]

Bushs tax cuts did benefit me, but only a little bit. The fact of the matter is that the richest people in the country will have had a total tax break of about 5-6% of their income by the time the tax breaks expire in 2010. The upper middle class (where I am) on down to the poorest will have received a 1-2% cut. I understand that my cut will not be the same dollar figure as Warren Buffet because he makes more. His dollar level should be significantly higher, but why is his percentage also higher?

A lot of you guys are complaining about 'redistribution of wealth'. It is a poor choice of words because Obamas plan re-allocates the tax burden. I will not be getting any of your wealth, I will just be keeping more of mine.

Lets talk about redistribution of wealth that really does fit the definition. My state (MA) only gets back about $.82 of every Federal tax dollar paid. My money gets redistrubuted to those poor states like GA ($1.01), AZ ($1.19), MO ($1.32), and LA ($1.78). I'm tired of paying for states that can't seem to educate their kids as well as those in my state, even though I am helping them to do so. CdC, I'm counting you as AZ because I've heard that you used to live there, and because I don't like you. Maybe you guys who live in those states and always whine about taxes should think about getting your states able to stand on their own instead of taking welfare from me. Maybe then your tax rate can be reduced.

And many of you who are whining about Obamas tax plan were also in favour of going into Iraq. Time for you to start putting up the cash for it, cause I do not want to be responsible for your support of ignorance and bad planning.

Steve

[aharris]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

I'll tell you what's going to make me feel better. I've got one of the young guys who works for me who's a big Obama supporter. He an his wife are little worker bees for "the anointed one". He's been hacking his spiel around the office and I'm fed up with it. I just called him and asked him to come in tomorrow morning where I'm going to give him a first hand lesson in Obamanomics. I know another young guy who makes probably 70% of what this guy makes and I figure it's about time that he gets to enjoy to fruits of the upper class. So tomorrow he's going to get his chance and and the socialist is going to get to go home and explain to his wife all about how they're going to have plenty of time to expound on and give first hand examples of how we should be taking from the well off and giving to the less well to do. I'll bet I'll be like Chris Matthews and it'll make my leg shiver.

Bernie

You are going to fire this guy because he has opposing political views to you?

Andrew

[NeoConMan]

Are you really that appalled if he does?

Only when a "poor Lefty" gets canned is there any outcry.
Poor "victim of the man"....


What if the guy was walking around spouting off Bible verses and espousing the virtue of our Founding Fathers?
What if he was saying we needed to get back to practicing the Liberty our country was founded on and go to church with our families like most of them did?

Bean counter could get the ACLU behind him to fire the guy then.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Bushs tax cuts did benefit me, but only a little bit. The fact of the matter is that the richest people in the country will have had a total tax break of about 5-6% of their income by the time the tax breaks expire in 2010. The upper middle class (where I am) on down to the poorest will have received a 1-2% cut. I understand that my cut will not be the same dollar figure as Warren Buffet because he makes more. His dollar level should be significantly higher, but why is his percentage also higher

Very simply put, his percentage is higher than yours cause he pays at a higher percentage tax rate than you!!!!!!!!!!! My main concern with OB is that he will have to raise taxes on a lot more folks than the "very rich" to fund all the give-a-way programs he has said he wants to do.

A lot of you guys are complaining about 'redistribution of wealth'. It is a poor choice of words because Obamas plan re-allocates the tax burden. I will not be getting any of your wealth, I will just be keeping more of mine.

Agree with you on that one.
Those words are NOT MINE, they are OBs.... Same as when he said about slicing up the pie,saying EVERYONE should get a piece of the pie,there I disagree,you should only get a piece of the pie if you work for it....
OBs plan as you say re-allocates the tax burden and I agree with that statement, but, I also think that raising the tax burden on the rich will have a "trickle down" effect, as in layoffs and higher prices for goods and services to offset the higher tax burden,IMHO........

My money gets redistrubuted to those poor states like GA ($1.01), AZ ($1.19), MO ($1.32), and LA ($1.78).

Yes it does and I'm from Louisiana, and I know what you mean when you look at those numbers....We are trying to do something about it, we finally elected a governor that has a little bit of brains and wants to do the right thing. So far, hundreds of state employees and appointees have quit, because of his honesty and desire to make everyone accountable for their job and actions.......he has fired a number of high level folks simply cause they couldn't do the job they were getting paid to do, for once in a very long time, the governor has delivered on his campaign promises, and things are slowing changing for the better........

We've had far too many years of corrupt and in-ept democrats running our state goverment.... Our three term governor is in the federal jail right now, he's from my home town and my dads highschool classmate and I know him personally, but he was a crook......the last four Insurance Comissoiners are either in federal jail right now or have served their time in federal jail and are now out..

We've had the best politicians money can buy!!!!!!!!! it's ashame to say it, but, it's the truth.....only the voters can change that, and we're trying........


David

[aharris]

Originally Posted by NeoConMan

Are you really that appalled if he does?

Only when a "poor Lefty" gets canned is there any outcry.
Poor "victim of the man"....


What if the guy was walking around spouting off Bible verses and espousing the virtue of our Founding Fathers?
What if he was saying we needed to get back to practicing the Liberty our country was founded on and go to church with our families like most of them did?

Bean counter could get the ACLU behind him to fire the guy then.

No. Actually, I was thinking about his right to freedom of speech and expression. It just seems a bit hypocritical.

A

[392cobra]

When someone is paying your salary,there is no freedom of speech or expression on the job site.

[NeoConMan]

Originally Posted by VRM

Bushs tax cuts did benefit me, but only a little bit.

And you're willing to give THAT up?
Why?

Originally Posted by VRM

A lot of you guys are complaining about 'redistribution of wealth'. It is a poor choice of words because Obamas plan re-allocates the tax burden. I will not be getting any of your wealth, I will just be keeping more of mine.

Then it's not you I'm worried about.
Where is MY tax money going?
Who's getting it?
Why do they need OR deserve what they already get, let alone more?

Originally Posted by VRM

Lets talk about redistribution of wealth that really does fit the definition. My state (MA) only gets back about $.82 of every Federal tax dollar paid. My money gets redistrubuted to those poor states like GA ($1.01), AZ ($1.19), MO ($1.32), and LA ($1.78). I'm tired of paying for states that can't seem to educate their kids as well as those in my state, even though I am helping them to do so. CdC, I'm counting you as AZ because I've heard that you used to live there, and because I don't like you.

I live in Arizona and you probably won't like me much either....
Here's a test - check my website I just started up > > > www.neoconman.com



Let's make ONE THING very clear here, it's not the Republicans keeping our children from being educated. My wife is a teacher in the 'hood of Phoenix, and after all these years she's about to take a pay cut and move to an "affluent" subdivision near our home where everybody is a citizen and speaks English.
Less pay, way less political stupidity, and a much simpler job. Fewer Defeatocrats....

Arizona is mired in Indian affairs & poverty, illegal Mexicans, and an influx of Liberal Californians.
Our problems are getting worse by the minute with the first two, and compounded by the third.

By the way, I spent 15 years in Texas and sending tax dollars to D.C. at a furious rate.
Does your source cite the tax imbalance for Texas? It was UGLY in the 80's & 90's!
Oh, and how many of those states sucking the DC teat are in the NorthEast?

Originally Posted by VRM

Maybe you guys who live in those states and always whine about taxes should think about getting your states able to stand on their own instead of taking welfare from me. Maybe then your tax rate can be reduced.

I really have my doubts that Massa2sh!ts is that far over the line.
Source?

Originally Posted by VRM

And many of you who are whining about Obamas tax plan were also in favour of going into Iraq. Time for you to start putting up the cash for it, cause I do not want to be responsible for your support of ignorance and bad planning.

My, the same old tired and pseudo-cocky retort....
I was in favor of going into Iraq - IN 1993!!!
Your man Clinton caused 9/11 by rolling over and playing dead in Iraq, then Somalia.
Deny it all you want - it's a fact.

Bin Laden himself said he was inspired by our pathetic action and subsequent complete withdrawal from Somalia. You can believe everything you hear from the pointy-headed Liberals over here, I'll believe what the Islamic murderers over there announce to the world as their sole intention.

Golly, looks like the UN was impotent and pathetic once again while the US takes it up the butt.

As far as ANYBODY putting up cash for anything, do YOU contribute to any charities or causes?
Every time I get a straight answer from a Liberal, I find they do not.

Let's see....
First, I pay my taxes in full - $30k in Fed alone last year.
Second, I tithe at my church. Do you give 10% of anything to anybody?
Third, I support a couple of causes near and dear to my heart with money - not lip service.

Concerning the above, I give what I was taught to give to my nation as a child.
That I was unable to serve in the military despite two attempts bothers me still. (Childhood athsma)
My wife's family and mine is full of military men, my Dad 22 years. I regret I did not serve.

This is what I consider the bare minimum for ANYBODY in this country, and I wish I had done more.
How about you and your Liberal friends, VRM?
Just curious....

[BeanCounter]

The fact of the matter is that the richest people in the country will have had a total tax break of about 5-6% of their income by the time the tax breaks expire in 2010. The upper middle class (where I am) on down to the poorest will have received a 1-2% cut.

Okay Steve let's talk tax breaks. If a person pays a 50% rate and gets a 10% reduction then he gets 5% less taxes. If a person only pays 16% in taxes then he would get a 1.6% reduction. Another case of the old adage that figures lie and liars figure.

[BeanCounter]

Andrew,

I'm not 'going' to, I did. Here's a man who is doing everything to bring down the very system that made him a success. It's not me being hypocritical on the issue of free speech, it's basically him being hypocritical in looking for others to make the sacrifice and him to continue to benefit from it. I just helped him to see the hypocrisy of it and to live by his own standards.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

Very simply put, his percentage is higher than yours cause he pays at a higher percentage tax rate than you!!!!!!!!!!! My main concern with OB is that he will have to raise taxes on a lot more folks than the "very rich" to fund all the give-a-way programs he has said he wants to do.



Agree with you on that one.
Those words are NOT MINE, they are OBs.... Same as when he said about slicing up the pie,saying EVERYONE should get a piece of the pie,there I disagree,you should only get a piece of the pie if you work for it....
OBs plan as you say re-allocates the tax burden and I agree with that statement, but, I also think that raising the tax burden on the rich will have a "trickle down" effect, as in layoffs and higher prices for goods and services to offset the higher tax burden,IMHO........



Yes it does and I'm from Louisiana, and I know what you mean when you look at those numbers....We are trying to do something about it, we finally elected a governor that has a little bit of brains and wants to do the right thing. So far, hundreds of state employees and appointees have quit, because of his honesty and desire to make everyone accountable for their job and actions.......he has fired a number of high level folks simply cause they couldn't do the job they were getting paid to do, for once in a very long time, the governor has delivered on his campaign promises, and things are slowing changing for the better........

We've had far too many years of corrupt and in-ept democrats running our state goverment.... Our three term governor is in the federal jail right now, he's from my home town and my dads highschool classmate and I know him personally, but he was a crook......the last four Insurance Comissoiners are either in federal jail right now or have served their time in federal jail and are now out..

We've had the best politicians money can buy!!!!!!!!! it's ashame to say it, but, it's the truth.....only the voters can change that, and we're trying........


David

David,
Thanks for trying to do something about LA. MA is not exactly full of good politicians; we have Frank, Kerry, Kennedy, and a lot of others at the local level I don't even want to go into! However, I am at the point now where I am sick of all the ungrateful people in the poor states taking advantage of my states good fortune. My property tax rate is pretty high compared to those poor states I mentioned. Maybe those states should charge a higher property tax rate so that they don't have to keep taking my fed money, and thereby causing my state and local rates to be higher.
I do not like Obamas tax plan, but I think it is better than McCains. I'm also sure that Obamas plan will only be for a short term anyway, but it will be a good stimulus package that will help create jobs. I agree that only those who work should get a bit of that pie. I've already posted something on that under the 'what I would do' thread. I hate welfare, and would love to get rid of it.

Steve

[VRM]

Originally Posted by NeoConMan

And you're willing to give THAT up?
Why?

Then it's not you I'm worried about.
Where is MY tax money going?
Who's getting it?
Why do they need OR deserve what they already get, let alone more?

I live in Arizona and you probably won't like me much either....
Here's a test - check my website I just started up > > > www.neoconman.com

Let's make ONE THING very clear here, it's not the Republicans keeping our children from being educated. My wife is a teacher in the 'hood of Phoenix, and after all these years she's about to take a pay cut and move to an "affluent" subdivision near our home where everybody is a citizen and speaks English.
Less pay, way less political stupidity, and a much simpler job. Fewer Defeatocrats....

Arizona is mired in Indian affairs & poverty, illegal Mexicans, and an influx of Liberal Californians.
Our problems are getting worse by the minute with the first two, and compounded by the third.

By the way, I spent 15 years in Texas and sending tax dollars to D.C. at a furious rate.
Does your source cite the tax imbalance for Texas? It was UGLY in the 80's & 90's!
Oh, and how many of those states sucking the DC teat are in the NorthEast?

I really have my doubts that Massa2sh!ts is that far over the line.
Source?

My, the same old tired and pseudo-cocky retort....
I was in favor of going into Iraq - IN 1993!!!
Your man Clinton caused 9/11 by rolling over and playing dead in Iraq, then Somalia.
Deny it all you want - it's a fact.

Bin Laden himself said he was inspired by our pathetic action and subsequent complete withdrawal from Somalia. You can believe everything you hear from the pointy-headed Liberals over here, I'll believe what the Islamic murderers over there announce to the world as their sole intention.

Golly, looks like the UN was impotent and pathetic once again while the US takes it up the butt.

As far as ANYBODY putting up cash for anything, do YOU contribute to any charities or causes?
Every time I get a straight answer from a Liberal, I find they do not.

Let's see....
First, I pay my taxes in full - $30k in Fed alone last year.
Second, I tithe at my church. Do you give 10% of anything to anybody?
Third, I support a couple of causes near and dear to my heart with money - not lip service.

Concerning the above, I give what I was taught to give to my nation as a child.
That I was unable to serve in the military despite two attempts bothers me still. (Childhood athsma)
My wife's family and mine is full of military men, my Dad 22 years. I regret I did not serve.

This is what I consider the bare minimum for ANYBODY in this country, and I wish I had done more.
How about you and your Liberal friends, VRM?
Just curious....

I think Obamas plan is better both for me and the country than McCains. That is not to say that it is a GOOD plan, as there are elements of it that I do not like. Giving the bulk of the tax cuts only to the rich will not help the economy. And considering that the primary focus of giving a tax cut when we are so badly in debt is solely to help the economy, then we really should look at the biggest and quickest way to make a stimulus package work.

I don't dislike you. The only one on this forum I really dislike is CdC. Despite all the arguments I have with people on here Bomelia is the only one who actually managed to get under my skin and cause me to lose my temper. I read some of your website, and you might be surprised to find that I would only blatantly change one line of your disclaimer, and tweak 2-3 others. I would probably add a few of my own.

Clinton was not 'my man'. I never voted for him. I met him in NH when he was running his first campaign. He came in to a place where I was having lunch. He shook my hand, and we all talked for a couple of minutes, but he reminded me of the ultimate used car salesman. Clinton contributed by not being willing to take on Bin Laden at the early stages. Bush contributed by not correcting that mistake, and going off half cocked after going into Afghanistan (which was the right thing to do).

Everybody has problems no matter where we live. We have to add snow removal to all of our local budgets, we have huge heating bills, we also have a large number of illegals living in the area, and we have a Gov who wants to protect them!!! Unlike Bernie, I have no problem helping you or anybody when something tragic happens, but the rest of the time I expect people and states to be able to pull their own weight.

Texas was $.94 (good for them!)
Vermont and Maine were 1.08 and 1.41 respectively. RI was $1.00. Everything else in the NE was under the $1.00 point (NJ $.61 NY,$.79 CT$.69, NH $.71, DE $.77). My numbers are for 2005. Here is an interesting bit that show how many of the 'red states' are sucking at the DC teat courtesy of the 'blue states'.

My cousin just got back from Iraq, and I had a grandfather, grandmother, and uncle who all served in the Navy. I considered the Navy. I have a problem with authority, and I am willing to suffer the consequences when I refuse to follow something blindly. I was persuaded by my uncle and grandfather to go into engineering because I would piss off too many people in the service.

I help out with Toys for Tots (time to gear up for that again - funny considering that I am not Christian, eh?) and the Make a Wish Foundation.

One of my most prized posessions is a beat up set of well-traveled (Greenland, Germany, Vietnam, Japan) chessmen left to me by a gentleman about 25 years ago. I'm not the type to brag about things like that as it is very personal to me. You might get a few more details out of me over beers, but its not likely.

Steve

[VRM]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Okay Steve let's talk tax breaks. If a person pays a 50% rate and gets a 10% reduction then he gets 5% less taxes. If a person only pays 16% in taxes then he would get a 1.6% reduction. Another case of the old adage that figures lie and liars figure.

Oh, yes, lets...

If a person in the 35% tax bracket gets a 10% reduction they will pay 3.5 % less taxes. A person in the 33 and 28% brackets will pay 3.3 and 2.8% less. So how does that turn into a 2% cut for me and a 6% cut for Bill Gates?

And we all pay SS taxes (6.2%) up to $95K or so. If I am in the 33% bracket I may actually pay a higher % of my income in taxes than somebody in the 35% bracket.

Steve

[BeanCounter]

SS is a retirement fund (or so FDR told us). What you get back in SS is comparable to the $ you pay in. So the max SS benefit should end the same for each and every one of us.

I had to put the smiley in front because I was almost laughing too hard to type this.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

SS is a retirement fund (or so FDR told us). What you get back in SS is comparable to the $ you pay in. So the max SS benefit should end the same for each and every one of us.

I had to put the smiley in front because I was almost laughing too hard to type this.

Yep, and you know as well as I do that it just aint so. This is one area where I disagree with Obamas plan - he wants to end that max cap, but those paying in will not get any additional benefits. That is a redistribution of wealth.

[wtm442]

[Ron61]

Warren,

I think that you and Fred should beat this rush and redistribute your wealth before it becomes law. I would be happy to take all of your extra money before the Gov. gets it and gives it to their friends. Always happy to help out a friend.

Ron