Should the US bailout the big three automakers?

[ng8264723]

That $400,000 surgery costs $400,000 b/c you have people whospend 15 years training for the job. It's interesting that people don't wat to pay MD's but will pay a baseball player millions. Health care is not a right it's a privilege.
ED Doc

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

That $400,000 surgery costs $400,000 b/c you have people whospend 15 years training for the job. It's interesting that people don't wat to pay MD's but will pay a baseball player millions. Health care is not a right it's a privilege.
ED Doc

Pay the doctors the mega bucks, but stop charging $25 for one aspirin.

[speed220mph]

The bailout . . . a different perspective

Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for
tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed.
Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who
couldn't make money running a whore house and selling booze?

Quote of the day from a fund manager:

"This is worse than a divorce... I've lost half of my net worth and I
still have my wife.."

[CobraDan]

________________________________________
Stores across America are being scheduled to close after the Christmas season due to economic difficulties and bankruptcy.
Circuit City Filed Bankruptcy, they promised to keep all stores open for the holiday season, but afterwards, they plan on closing 155 stores nationwide.

Ann Taylor closing 117 stores nationwide.
A company spokeswoman said the company hasn't revealed which stores will be
shuttered. It will let the stores that will close this fiscal year know
over the next month

Eddie Bauer to close more stores.
Eddie Bauer has already closed 27 shops in the first quarter and plans to
close up to two more outlet stores by the end of the year.

Cache closing stores.
Women's retailer Cache announced that it is closing 20 to 23 stores this
year.

Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, and Catherines closing 150 stores nationwide.
The owner of retailers Lane Bryant , Fashion Bug, Catherines Plus Sizes will
close about 150 underperforming stores this year. The company hasn't
provided a list of specific store closures and can't say! when it will offer
that info, spokeswoman Brooke Perry said today.

Talbots, J. Jill closing stores.
About a month ago, Talbots announced that it will be shuttering all 78 of
its kids and men 's stores. Now t he company says it will close another 22
underperforming stores. The 22 stores will be a mix of Talbots women's and
J Jill, another chain it owns. The closures will occur this fiscal year,
according to a company press release.

Gap Inc. closing 85 stores
In addition to its namesake chain, Gap also owns Old Navy and Banana
Republic . The company said the closures - all planned for fiscal 2008 -
will be weighted toward the Gap brand.

Foot Locker to close 140 stores
In the company press release and during its conference call with analysts
today, it did not specify where the future store closures - all planned in
fiscal 2008 - will be. The company could not be immediately reached for
comment

Wickes is going out of business
Wickes Furniture is going out of business and closing all of its stores.
Wickes, a 37-year-old retailer that targets middle-income customers, filed
for bankruptcy protection last month.

Goodbye Levitz / BOMBAY - closed already The furniture retailer, which is
going out of business. Levitz first announced it was going out of business
and closi! ng all 76 of its stores in December. The retailer dates back to
1910 when Richard Levitz opened his first furniture store in Lebanon, PA. In
the 1960s, the warehouse/showroom concept brought Levitz to the forefront of
the furniture industry. The local Levitz closures will follow the shutdown
of Bombay .

Zales, Piercing Pagoda closing stores
The owner of Zales and Piercing Pagoda previously said it plans to close 82
stores by Jul y 31. Later, they announced that it is closing another 23
underperforming stores. The company said it's not providing a list of
specific store closures. Of the 105 locations planned for closure, 50 are
kiosks and 55 are stores.

Disney Store owner has the right to close 98 stores The Walt Disney Company
announced it acquired about 220 Disney Stores from subsidiaries of The
Children's Place Retail Stores. The exact number of stores acquired will
depend on negotiations with landlords. Those subsidiaries of Children's
Place filed for bankruptcy protection in late March. In the news release,
Disney said it has also obtained the right to close about 98 Disney Stores
in the U.S. The press release didn't list those stores.

Home Depot store closings
Nearly 7+ months after its chief executive said there were no plans to cut
the number of its core retail stores, The Home Depot Inc. announced
Thursday that it is shuttering 15 of them amid a slumping US. economy and
housing market. The move will affect 1,300 employees. It is the first
time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a flagship
store for performance reasons. Its shares rose almost 5 percent.
The Atlanta-based company said the underperforming U.S. stores being closed
represent less than 1 percent of its existing stores They will be
shuttered with in the next two months .

CompUSA clarifies details on store closings Any extended
warranties purchased for products through CompUSA will be honored by a
third-party provider, Assurant Solutions. Gift cards, rain checks, and
rebates purchased prior to December 12 can be redeemed at any time during
the final sale. For those who have a gadget currently in for service with
CompUSA, the repair will be completed and the gadget will be returned to
owners.

Macy's - 9 stores

Movie Gallery - 160 stores will close as part of a reorganization plan to
exit bankruptcy.
The video rental company plans to close 400 of 3,500 Movie Gallery and
Hollywood Video stores in addition to the 520 locations the video rental
chain closed last fall.

Pep Boys - 33 stores

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations
New Sprint Nextel CEO Dan Hesse appears to have inherited a company bleeding
subscribers by the thousands, and will now officially be dropping the ax on
4,000 employees and 125 retail locations. Amid the loss of 639,000 postpaid
customers in the fourth quarter, Sprint will be cutting a total of 6.7% of
its work force (following the 5,000 layoffs last year)! and 8% of
company-owned brick-and-mortar stores, while remaining mute on other rumors
that it will consolidate its headquarters in Kansas . Sprint Nextel shares
are down $2.89, or nearly 25%, at the time of this writing.

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot will be scaling back and cutting jobs.

Ethan Allen Interiors - The company announced plans to close 12 of 300+
stores in an effort to cut costs.

Wilsons the Leather Experts - all 260 mall stores.

Pacific Sunwear will close its 154 Demo stores after a review of strategic
alternatives for the urban-apparel brand Seventy-four underperforming Demo
stores closed last May.

Sharper Image: The company recently filed for bankruptcy protection and
announced that 90 of its 184 stores are closing. The retailer will still
operate 94 stores to pay off debts, but 90 of these stores have performed
poorly and also may close.

Bombay Company
The company unveiled plans ! to clos e all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company
stores. The company's online storefront has discontinued operations.

KB Toys posted a list of 356 stores that it is closing around the United
States as part of its bankruptcy reorganization.

Dillard's to Close More Stores
Dillard's Inc. said it will continue to focus on closing underperforming
stores, reducing expenses and improving its merchandise in 2008. At the
company's annual shareholder meeting, CEO William Dillard II said the
company will close another six underperforming stores this year.

Starbucks: Starbucks will close approximately 600 company- operated stores in the U.S.

Pier 1: Announced that they would be closing an undisclosed number of stores.

Kirklands: A chain of home decor stores will be closing nearly 130 stores nationwide.

Sprint: to cut 4500 jobs. and 125 stores.

Linens 'n Things: Is closing 120 stores nationwide

Dell Inc. closed its 140 kiosks in the United States

Liz Claiborne Inc. said it's closing the entire 54-store Sigrid Olsen chain.

Lone Star Steak House: 27 stores closing.

84 Lumber: 12 stores closing

Rite Aid: 28 stores

Big Dollar: dollar stores closing 10 stores

[Bartruff1]

Should implies a value judgement and perhaps that is what you are asking but "should" really doesn't matter. We are going to bail them out.

[G.R.]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Should implies a value judgement and perhaps that is what you are asking but "should" really doesn't matter. We are going to bail them out.

Yep we (the taxpayers) will....but I want Stock in the Big 3 for my money. I don't want some dumocrat gov't clone managing my money...if I'm buying in I want a say so...that goes for the banks, the insurance companies and whatever all with their tin cups out.


Take back America's economic freedom...

[Don]

Selected comments, not the entire article:

Fuel-efficient caravan planned for automakers' next trip to D.C.

BY TOM WALSH and MARK PHELAN
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITERS


" A plan is taking shape for auto suppliers, dealers and the UAW to participate in a cavalcade of fuel-efficient American-brand vehicles to Washington, D.C., in December, when Congress reconsiders the industry's plea for quick action on low-interest loans.The aim is to put a populist face on the need for the American auto industry's survival and to build grassroots support for federal aid, in the wake of criticism that the Detroit Three chief executive officers and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger did not make a convincing case during two days of congressional hearings last week.

The proposal took shape Friday after Tim Leuliette, chairman and CEO of Dura Automotive, a Rochester Hills-based supplier, broached the idea to Rick Wagoner, Alan Mulally and Bob Nardelli, the CEOs of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC. Other supplier executives and auto dealers were quickly engaged in the discussion.

"We want to help dispel the myths" about the Detroit Three, Sean McGuire, Dura vice president of marketing, said Sunday. "It's important to show that these are truly high-tech companies that produce a variety of alternate-fuel and high fuel-efficiency vehicles."

Ford, GM, Chrysler and UAW representatives expressed support for the idea Sunday.

"The UAW thinks it's great that so many people understand the importance of good American jobs and know the value and quality of American vehicles," spokesman Roger Kerson said.

The goal is to bring together a group of 100 or more auto industry leaders and local officials for a rally in Hart Plaza in support of the loans. A cavalcade of hybrids and other fuel-efficient vehicles made by GM, Chrysler and Ford then would head to Washington, with stops along the way for rallies and news conferences. If the CEOs and Gettelfinger present Congress with a specific recovery plan as requested by Dec. 2 and appear for more testimony on Dec. 8, the cavalcade probably would begin on Sunday, Dec. 7.

But the date and the specifics are still under discussion. "

[khansmith]

I thought this was a good piece that speaks to this topic

Source: NY Times
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Let Detroit Go Bankrupt

By MITT ROMNEY
Boston

IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.

Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself. With it, the automakers will stay the course — the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.

I love cars, American cars. I was born in Detroit, the son of an auto chief executive. In 1954, my dad, George Romney, was tapped to run American Motors when its president suddenly died. The company itself was on life support — banks were threatening to deal it a death blow. The stock collapsed. I watched Dad work to turn the company around — and years later at business school, they were still talking about it. From the lessons of that turnaround, and from my own experiences, I have several prescriptions for Detroit’s automakers.

First, their huge disadvantage in costs relative to foreign brands must be eliminated. That means new labor agreements to align pay and benefits to match those of workers at competitors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota. Furthermore, retiree benefits must be reduced so that the total burden per auto for domestic makers is not higher than that of foreign producers.

That extra burden is estimated to be more than $2,000 per car. Think what that means: Ford, for example, needs to cut $2,000 worth of features and quality out of its Taurus to compete with Toyota’s Avalon. Of course the Avalon feels like a better product — it has $2,000 more put into it. Considering this disadvantage, Detroit has done a remarkable job of designing and engineering its cars. But if this cost penalty persists, any bailout will only delay the inevitable.

Second, management as is must go. New faces should be recruited from unrelated industries — from companies widely respected for excellence in marketing, innovation, creativity and labor relations.

The new management must work with labor leaders to see that the enmity between labor and management comes to an end. This division is a holdover from the early years of the last century, when unions brought workers job security and better wages and benefits. But as Walter Reuther, the former head of the United Automobile Workers, said to my father, “Getting more and more pay for less and less work is a dead-end street.”

You don’t have to look far for industries with unions that went down that road. Companies in the 21st century cannot perpetuate the destructive labor relations of the 20th. This will mean a new direction for the U.A.W., profit sharing or stock grants to all employees and a change in Big Three management culture.

The need for collaboration will mean accepting sanity in salaries and perks. At American Motors, my dad cut his pay and that of his executive team, he bought stock in the company, and he went out to factories to talk to workers directly. Get rid of the planes, the executive dining rooms — all the symbols that breed resentment among the hundreds of thousands who will also be sacrificing to keep the companies afloat.

Investments must be made for the future. No more focus on quarterly earnings or the kind of short-term stock appreciation that means quick riches for executives with options. Manage with an eye on cash flow, balance sheets and long-term appreciation. Invest in truly competitive products and innovative technologies — especially fuel-saving designs — that may not arrive for years. Starving research and development is like eating the seed corn.

Just as important to the future of American carmakers is the sales force. When sales are down, you don’t want to lose the only people who can get them to grow. So don’t fire the best dealers, and don’t crush them with new financial or performance demands they can’t meet.

It is not wrong to ask for government help, but the automakers should come up with a win-win proposition. I believe the federal government should invest substantially more in basic research — on new energy sources, fuel-economy technology, materials science and the like — that will ultimately benefit the automotive industry, along with many others. I believe Washington should raise energy research spending to $20 billion a year, from the $4 billion that is spent today. The research could be done at universities, at research labs and even through public-private collaboration. The federal government should also rectify the imbedded tax penalties that favor foreign carmakers.

But don’t ask Washington to give shareholders and bondholders a free pass — they bet on management and they lost.

The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check.

Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, was a candidate for this year’s Republican presidential nomination.