The Obama Economy

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

This money would have been used for the bailout even if McCain were to be in office, too much of our economic condition was kept secret, do you believe for a second that McCain would have said that the core of our economy was sound if they had told him? I don't believe for a second that he's that dumb! and other then the experts on FOX I know pretty funny, all the other experts say we have not spent enough. So if we have to spend, then we need to spend on infrastructure, something that will give us a long term return on our money, not tax relief for the wealthy that has proven to be ineffective.

A nation is no different than an individual.

What is the logic of telling a man, already so deep in debt that it seems impossible to ever get out, that his salvation is to spend even more, and faster, and all will be well.
That method does not cure, does not correct, it just prolongs.

You can pick a tiny segment of any economy and see the whole thing. And it constantly repeats itself, IF LEFT ALONE TO DO IT.
Take the video rental business. It flourished with a rental store on every corner. Generating hundreds of millions of dollars of business. But it overcooked and had to shake out. It did that, then it got superseded by technology. No different than the entire economy, it waxes and wanes, ACCORDING TO THE MARKET, not the politicians.
Its REALITY, a concept seemingly impossible for liberals to grasp.

Dan

[427 S/O]

Recession is when your neighbor loses his job.

Depression is when you lose yours.

Recovery is when Obama loses his.

[cobra de capell]

Those interested, first go to...

http://market-ticker.org/archives/84...e-America.html

Second, to......

http://market-ticker.org/

Both articles concern "The Bezzle" - that is, our government's refusal to uphold the law and force the truth to be disclosed both publicly and to investors.

About "The Bezzle":

There’s a name for the part of the cycle we’re in — It’s called the “bezzle.”

Richard Parker of Harvard’s Kennedy School knows all about it. Professor Parker good to have you with us.

PARKER: Delighted to be here.

VIGELAND: So, tell us. What is the “bezzle?”

PARKER: The “bezzle’s” a term that was coined by the American economist John Kenneth Galbraith in a book called “The Great Crash: 1929” which he wrote in the middle of the 1950s. What he recognized was that at any given time there is a certain amount of embezzlement going on in the economy. Now this falsely inflates the sense of the total wealth of the economy at that moment. Because, not only does the embezzler now have substantial resources under his control but the embezzled does not yet know that he or she has lost those resources. And so there’s, in effect, a kind of double counting of wealth of both the victim and the victimizer. And the inventory of that duplicity is what Ken called the bezzle.
____

No matter how bad you think it is, it will be 1,000,000 times worse.

Radioactive mutants. Radroaches. A barren wasteland with scorched trees and horrid scrub brush will hid the mangled corpses and gnawed bones of the lucky - those who died early.

This is the reality. Get used to it. I voted for McCain.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

____
This is the reality. Get used to it. I voted for McCain.

Good articles - thanks for posting them.

While I agree that Obama is doing a lousy job with this how would McCain have done better? After all - his campaign financial adviser was one of the guys who got us into this mess.

Big (like $4-5K) tax cuts for the middle class are about the only thing I see getting us out of this quicker than just waiting it out.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

Good articles - thanks for posting them.

While I agree that Obama is doing a lousy job with this how would McCain have done better? After all - his campaign financial adviser was one of the guys who got us into this mess.

Big (like $4-5K) tax cuts for the middle class are about the only thing I see getting us out of this quicker than just waiting it out.

I'm with you on the tax cuts - also, business tax cuts for a year or so - no capital gains tax for two years. In addition, allow all non-financial institution entities that are in trouble to go bankrupt (GM, etc)

Although it's true that McCain may not have done much better - McCain's policies and statements more than likely would not have done the damage that Obama has done and is doing.

What's happening at the White House level is clearly summed up within this statement..........

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste,” said Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. “This crisis provides the opportunity for us to do things that you could not do before.”

It's those "things" that are compounding the problems within the economy.

[cobra bill]

cobra bill, I'm not an economist and I've heard that statement you made many times in the past month. Please explain to me exactly how the above statement you made will help us and give me an example of how it has stimulated the economy in the past.

Please educate me.

Thanks[/quote]

Well it's pretty simple, if we spend money to repair infrastructure, that money will go to small businesses who bid on the work, they in turn hire people to do the work, they in turn buy things because they are happily employed, this keeps other people building those things, keeping them employed, and they in turn spend money as well, and so on and so on, there by stimulating the economy.
OK I know there are those small minded people out there that will throughout some distracting childish name calling, and that's fine! if all they can do is call people names and have no ideas of their own, it's no wonder we find ourselves ware we are, we have had 28 years to study reaganomics, and it's an outright failure! trickle up works, not trickle down. and by the way calling me a liberal does not hurt my feelings, I am proud to be a liberal.
it's been 30 years of hate radio that has been spewing out all this rhetoric about the evil liberals, NOT SO, I am an American first and foremost, I volunteered to fight for my country and I have been in service to my country for the last 35 years, and I will always put country first not politics. That said I will be the first to stand up when a group of crazed lunatics take over a political party and subvert the constitution, as shown by the last administration, and yes because of that for the first time in my life I participated in getting someone elected to office, had it been the democratic party involved in the same criminal behavior I would be working for the opposing party to get them elected, it is after all our only recourse as a citizen.

[VRM]

C B,
Trickle down does not work by itself. Neither does trickle up. You have to balance the two for the best effect.
Henry Ford got it right when he paid his employees enough to be able to afford the product he manufactured.

Some spending on infrastructure is good because of the reasons you mentioned. But I just don't think that the spending bill is a good one. Too much pork, and not enough of a bold and simple statement to the middle class who really are the only ones who can start the turnaround in the short term.

Steve

[cobra bill]

CDC, Great articles, while I disagree that Obama has been as bad as you and others claim, I do agree this needs to come to the light of day, and so far that is what I am most proud about when it comes to Obama, he has been vary transparent in everything he has done thus far, OK more needs to be done, and those that brought us to this point need to be prosecuted, and I personally don't care who goes down for it, whether it be Barny Frank or Phil Graham, they need to be made examples of.

[cobra bill]

VRM, I guess it depends on your idea of pork, there are a lot of things in there that the rightwing has called pork, it's been a fraction of the overall package, and the way I look at it. it still hires people and keeps others employed, and there is always the interesting fact that many of the so called pork is in republican districts.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

VRM, I guess it depends on your idea of pork, there are a lot of things in there that the rightwing has called pork, it's been a fraction of the overall package, and the way I look at it. it still hires people and keeps others employed, and there is always the interesting fact that many of the so called pork is in republican districts.

There is pork from both sides if the aisle. Part of the problem is the perception that there is nothing bold in the bill to boost any sort of consumer confidence. Keeping 20 people employed is not a bad thing, but it does nothing to restore to confidence of the 90% of people employed who all think that they will lose their jobs. Obama is trying to micromanage the situation, and we just do not have the resources for that.

Part of the value of our economy is knowing that we have a valuable economy, but Obama is not using that psychology.

[cobra bill]

That's true, but sitting around doing nothing but obstructing is no help either, this is a crisis, and we need everyone on board to help, they all need to put aside their ideological differences stop calling each other names and get something done! at least putting people back to work is a start, and we have the satisfaction that it's not going to wall street and the fat cats that got us into this mess.

[VRM]

I would have voted against the package because it will not work.

Obama ran on a middle class tax cut - I think the GOP would agree with at least that part of it. So go for that and nothing else - voting would be about as unanimous as you can get, and would send one helluva message.

[cobra bill]

I don't personally think they would have voted for it, they only like tax cuts for the wealthy, not the regular folks. heaven forbid we get anything! in all the years of tax cuts since Reagan never once has the middle class got a break, in fact the largest tax increase in history was given to us by Reagan.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

CDC, Great articles, while I disagree that Obama has been as bad as you and others claim, I do agree this needs to come to the light of day, and so far that is what I am most proud about when it comes to Obama, he has been vary transparent in everything he has done thus far, OK more needs to be done, and those that brought us to this point need to be prosecuted, and I personally don't care who goes down for it, whether it be Barny Frank or Phil Graham, they need to be made examples of.

he has been vary transparent in everything he has done thus far,

Cobra Bull - now, this is a good example of the problems with practically all your posts, aside from spelling errors - those that know, know that he hasn't been transparent at all, for example -

The federal government must be more transparent
http://www.stillwatergazette.com/art...opinion220.txt

1,073 Pages (A stimulus bill that's anything but transparent)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123456958734386181.html

In part....

In his closing remarks on the stimulus bill yesterday, House Appropriations Chairman David Obey called it "the largest change in domestic policy since the 1930s." We'd say more like the 1960s, which is bad enough, but his point about the bill's magnitude is right. The 1,073-page monstrosity includes the biggest spending increase since World War II, but more important is the fine print expanding the role of the federal government across the breadth of American business, health care, energy and welfare policy.

Given those stakes, you might think Congress would get more than a few hours to debate it. But, no, yesterday's roll call votes came less than 24 hours after House-Senate conferees had agreed to their deal. Democrats rushed the bill to the floor before Members could even read it, much less have time to broadcast the details so the public could offer its verdict.

So much for Democratic promises of a new era of transparency. Only this Tuesday the House unanimously approved a resolution promising 48-hour public notice before holding a roll call. Even better, the bill could have been posted on the Internet, as candidate Barack Obama suggested during the campaign. Let voters see what they're getting for all this money. Not a chance.
____

Therefore, when you use words like "very transparent" to defend your boy - it's simply not believable, it's more or less lying to further your agenda. By the way, no one posting here believes anything that you post relating to politics and it's not because you are a flaming liberal, it's due to standard sick, delusional liberal tactics - they cannot see or face reality when it stares them in the face.

And your comment above "and we need everyone on board to help, they all need to put aside their ideological differences stop calling each other names and get something done! at least putting people back to work is a start" is basically BS.

Is it inherently unpatriotic or immoral to want to see a president fail?

“The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.”

“Theodore Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star” - May 7, 1918

President Obama carries an intellectual confidence so severely out of step with his skill set that the promise of disappointment, I trust, one day will bring me great joy. When I'm not posting here, I plead with some higher power to sentence Obama to painful obscurity and professional failure, practically every single day.

Therefore, standing by Obama as you seem to be, with no criticism to offer is practically teasonable, given the fact that you are a reasonably intellegent man and assuming that you are also completely sane.

[392cobra]

President Obama carries an intellectual confidence so severely out of step with his skill set

So VERY VERY true and I believe that it will bring him down.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

I don't personally think they would have voted for it, they only like tax cuts for the wealthy, not the regular folks. heaven forbid we get anything! in all the years of tax cuts since Reagan never once has the middle class got a break, in fact the largest tax increase in history was given to us by Reagan.

cobra bill, I have a few questions for you.

• At what income level do you consider someone "upper class?"
• What should the federal income tax rate be on the "upper class?"
• How much of the federal tax burden would you like the "upper class" to pay?

[joe g]

Cobra Bill A POOR PERSON NEVER HIRED ANYONE
I have worked STRAIGHT COMMISSION most of my life i work hard, why shouold i be taxed more because i get off my butt and work. i drive thru the city of hartford every week and i see the lazy people hanging out living with title nineteen house payments baby in tow.. getting wic payments and fod stamps. The top earners pay over 80% of all taxes while the average guy making 50 grand in ct pays NOTHING> They use the services, the rich dont, so why should they pay more because there sucessful. i do agree they should pay medicare and s/s tax's om ALL there income, but to tax them more because there sucessfull-- thats socialism and that HAS NEVER WORKED ANYWHERE.
joeg

[cobra bill]

CDC, OK point taken the bill was rushed through, however they told us, just as they did when Bush asked for us to bail out wall street, and that was fast tracked as well, because they told us we had to do it now, and we could not wait. OK I and others bought off on it, once again we were told it had to be done and sooner than later, well all I can do is trust they have more information on the subject matter the I do and as with Bush I will just have to trust they are keeping our best interest at heart.

As for transparency though this administration has been way more transparent then any I have seen.

As for criticizing the president, I have no problem with it, I was all over Bush when he was subverting the constitution and taking us into an illegal war, so I have no problem with it, it's the only way to keep them in check, however, I was not talking about Obama failing or not I was talking about our country failing, its bigger than any one person.

[cobra de capell]

I'm speechless, Cobra Bull.

So, I'd like to offer you are personal thoughts button, only for your use....they apparently have them all over the White House since BO arrived....

Each time you feel like posting here, press the button first - perhaps ADD will kick in and you'll find another site, a receptive audience.

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by Stentor

cobra bill, I have a few questions for you.

• At what income level do you consider someone "upper class?"
• What should the federal income tax rate be on the "upper class?"
• How much of the federal tax burden would you like the "upper class" to pay?

At what income level do you consider someone "upper class?"

any one making 1 million or more a year

What should the federal income tax rate be on the "upper class?"

it's like an engine, you need a perfect balance of fuel and air for the engine to run properly, too little fuel and it runs lean, too much and it runs rich, just right and you make real power. if the economy was growing at a steady pace for 20 years before Reagan made his tax cuts, and they were continually cut for the next 28 by every administration, I would say some ware in the middle. Every time in our history we cut the taxes on the top end we have had a bubble, so we need to find that perfect balance, I'm not an expert and I'm not going to just throughout some arbitrary figure, I do know that right now it's out of whack.

How much of the federal tax burden would you like the "upper class" to
once again, I'm not sure what that balance is, before Reagan we had slow steady growth, and it was 90% OK even I agree that excessive, Reagan dropped it to 70% OK maybe still too high, but right now, ever Warren Buffet says it's not fair that his secretary gets taxed at a higher rate than he.