China ships harrasing US Naval ships in international waters

[SP01715]

I can only imagine being close (considering "danger close" is within 1000 meters) to the impact area of 16" shells when "fire for effect" is called. I was a few miles from some B-52 strikes in Iraq, and it was scarry. Awesome, but scarry. Gotta love American firepower.

[Fred Douglass]

.......repeat, RADIUS of a 5" 38 cal HE shell is 1000 yards. Depending on ground penetration, it's much shorter for a 5" shell landing on dirt. On rock........h-m-m-m-m-m.

As for a 16", ya might want to be one time-zone away. Those "small" bursts you see on Iwo or, later, Inchon are after mega penetration (20 feet min.). They couldn't fuse them for surface burst. Only VTF, and then they got air-bursts. They wanted to "dig the enemy out" at both sites. Best spot for a 16" is a solid rock plateau---THEN you'd see sumpin!!!!

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by Fred Douglass

.......repeat, RADIUS of a 5" 38 cal HE shell is 1000 yards. Depending on ground penetration, it's much shorter for a 5" shell landing on dirt. On rock........h-m-m-m-m-m.

As for a 16", ya might want to be one time-zone away. Those "small" bursts you see on Iwo or, later, Inchon are after mega penetration (20 feet min.). They couldn't fuse them for surface burst. Only VTF, and then they got air-bursts. They wanted to "dig the enemy out" at both sites. Best spot for a 16" is a solid rock plateau---THEN you'd see sumpin!!!!

Well I guess I am lucky then that I did not call in any naval gunfire. We had danger close brackets for different stuff we were calling in, and naval gunfire was 1000 meters. They never did make a distinction though between the different size guns on the navy ships.

[Fred Douglass]

The 16"x 45, which is Gawd-knows-what mm's and the 5" which is roughly equivalent to a 105mm. The REAL difference is in the flat trajectory----mv for BOFE is in the neighborhood of 3000 fps. That's just a little slower than an M-16 round. REPEAT: the standard three-bag load of unfixed ammo in the 16"x45 cal. is good for a mv of c. 2850 fps! You CAN load four bags and exceed 3000.

Naval HE shells contain a wicked concoction of gelignite (Sp?) which uster be known as "Torpex". 'Way explosive. Torpex is for torpedoes, as you know. When either delay-fused or AP fused that crap can build up a wicked "temper". Great for not only cratering airfields but bunker-busting. Since the 16" shell weighs 2300 lbs. but "only" contains around 150 lbs. of Torpex----the rest is frag. Yummee! Take down about an acre of trees, or fused to go off 25+ feet el. take out hundreds of people. Send 'em home in a ring-box!!!!

ALL naval projectiles are inertially armed----good to go only when fired. But drop one on the deck.....h-m-m-m-m! Did that once. Rotated the gun-turret (bow-most "mount 51", thank Gawd) which allowed us to plop it over the rail directly from the man-hatch at the back of the mount. Of course the location was then marked on charts as "UE Ordinance"----and broadcast in a notice to mariners beforehand.

This crap made me deaf, but I loved it.

[SP01715]

Good info. The next time I am in Hawaii I need to go on Big Mo. I have seen her from a distance there a couple times, but I have never been on her.

[Fred Douglass]

.......the old Mighty Mo is in sad need of repair (which goes a bit beyond "maintenance"). Also, while I was aboard, the "docent" (which is weirdese for "museum guide") was yammering on with ALL types of misinformation.....

The ship itself is absolutely mind-boggling. The only limitations imposed upon her design (wrongly, in my humble view) were the Panama-canal-dictated beam (106') and the length----if they'd thrown caution to the winds they could have made the Iowas like the projected (but never built) Montana class. I don't know the beam stats on them, but they were going to have FOUR triple 16" mounts and upwards of TWENTY AA/Dual Purpose 5" twin mounts.

The other thing, when you're there, is to go 'way up to the bow and look back (yikes!) and then north, at the Arizona memorial. You sort of see the entire course of the war----its start (for us) and its end. When you're on the Arizona, find the name "Horrocks"----this was the father of one of my gunner's mates! He told me that his old man died on the Arizona (and is still there!) when he himself was 2 (if I remember correctly).

In all, the whole display is worthy of a full day. We only spent 4 hours and should have spent 'way more. Thanks to Ron61, quite a few of photos got posted. (It'll save ya airfare---ar-ar-ar). Seriously, one thing well-worth a few hours is the base museum. Just the models alone are breath-taking. The view toward the southwest takes in Battleship Row from under the swaying palms. After getting home, I finished reading Michener's "Hawaii" but also got into several books on Pearl Harbor (most from the United States Naval Institute publications list---incidentally, and EXCELLENT site to visit).

If you (any of you) get a chance, get a copy of Kemp Tolley's "Cruise of the Lanikai--Incitement to War". It's like something out of a romantic south seas adventure movie! The Lanikai was purchased and commissioned in a matter of days, just before the Phillippines were attacked. The point (which is clear from the title) was that FDR wanted, and in his view, politically NEEDED, the Japanese to attack some "expendable" US asset. He wanted to chum them in with this 85-foot clunker of an inter-island schooner. In fact, FDR got 'way more than he bargained for and Tolley and his crew escaped and got down to Australia after threading through the Dutch East Indies (Java, Bali, etc.) JUST as they were being attacked!!!! A great read!

Karioke,