10 Cars That Sank Detroit

[Ron61]

Was that using our dirty diesel or did they find some that had been processed better? I don't see why we can't have both, the dirty for the trucks until they can phase them out and cleaner for cars such as this.

Ron

[95CobraR]

I don't agree with the guy's list at all.

The Ford Taurus, Ford Explorer, and the Chevrolet Cavalier were highly profitable cars for Ford and GM. To state that these cars "sank" Detroit is just incorrect in any valid reasoning process.

The Hummer didn't sell in enough numbers to budge Detroit.

I have always read that the Toyota Prius was an unprofitable vehicle for TM. TM makes its money on the Lexus (and large production Toyota's) and can confuse some internet "writers" into saying a low production hybrid "sank" Detroit.

Besides—what's a sebring, anyway?

Sebring is a town near an Air Force landing strip where WW2 bomber pilots were trained for the eventual victory over the Axis forces. The USAF sold the B52 bomber air strips to the City of Sebring who decided that it would be a good idea to build a road race course for sporty car guys.

The race track opened in 1950, and the 12 Hour race has been a special race since 1952. The city still owns the land but has a long term lease to the Panoz organization which now promotes the race.

Who is Rick Newman?

[Ronbo]

That list is BS, a lot of cars on it were quite profitable.

Ford Tempo converted many to Celicas and Camerys (missed this gem).

Never mentioned those Suzuki/GM pieces of junk (another diamond in the rough).

The first Ford Ranger (Isuzu Pup) (but, but, it's Japanese! It's got to be good)

Chrysler's Mitsubishi-built turds like the Talon...

I've owned several Chevy Astro vans - best darn fleet vehicle ever made, replaced by yet another wrong wheel drive, under-powered mini-van that doesn't sell.

Pinto's and Vega's - no where near as bad as the Datsuns and tin-can Toyotas from that era.

Subaru - (can you say frame that bows under the weight of a four-banger)

Seems to me the crappiest cars were usually, brace yourselves, THE CHEAPEST!!!

LTD's were good, T-birds, Caddys (I agree not the Cimmeron), Lincolns, Malibu's, Bonnevilles, Mustangs, 88's, 98's, LaSabers...

My general experiance getting into a Camery or Civic is similar to the above cheap, crappy cars...

[Cobrabill]

[quote=Ronbo;Pinto's and Vega's - no where near as bad as the Datsuns and tin-can Toyotas from that era....[/QUOTE]

That is catagorically false.All of them rusted quick.So that point is a wash.As far as drivelines go and build quality,Datsuns were superior to anything coming from Detroit in the 70's.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

That is catagorically false.All of them rusted quick.So that point is a wash.As far as drivelines go and build quality,Datsuns were superior to anything coming from Detroit in the 70's.

Agreed. My Vega launched the engine at 55k. Had a Toyota Celica we used as a field car with over 120k miles. Took the engine and trans from the Celica, put it in the Vega, and after many, many miles, sold the car.

If it didn't rot out, it's probably still on the road today. Had a lot more power than the Vega engine also.

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

That is catagorically false.All of them rusted quick.So that point is a wash.As far as drivelines go and build quality,Datsuns were superior to anything coming from Detroit in the 70's.

I wouldn't say so, friend of mine used to drive around with two or three of 'em stuck to the front bumper of his Polara.

Datsuns were so bad they had to change the name to Nisson... Didn't help much though.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Peugeot [FTF] is not far behind.

Jamo,
I have the utmost respect for a guy who remembers the prerequisite "FTF" anytime the F'n French or anything they do or make is mentioned.

As an airline pilot who flies nothing but Boeings I can proudly say that there is no bigger piece of crap in the sky than a F'n Airbus (FTF).

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

1)I wouldn't say so, friend of mine used to drive around with two or three of 'em stuck to the front bumper of his Polara.

2)Datsuns were so bad they had to change the name to Nisson... Didn't help much though.

1)I would.The Z car won it's class 10 years running-no American car has ever done that.
Datsun also wrote the book on compact pick-ups.

2)It's Nissan.And it was always Nissan-the parent corp.They dropped the "Datsun" marque and promptly lost 500,000 sales(units) in one year.So again,you are wrong.

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Jamo,
I have the utmost respect for a guy who remembers the prerequisite "FTF" anytime the F'n French or anything they do or make is mentioned.

As an airline pilot who flies nothing but Boeings I can proudly say that there is no bigger piece of crap in the sky than a F'n Airbus (FTF).

As a engineer that works at Boeing and was there when the first 767 took off, I whole heartly agree with you. FTF and Airbus.

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

1)I would.The Z car won it's class 10 years running-no American car has ever done that.
Datsun also wrote the book on compact pick-ups.

2)It's Nissan.And it was always Nissan-the parent corp.They dropped the "Datsun" marque and promptly lost 500,000 sales(units) in one year.So again,you are wrong.

Why do I get the feeling if there was a Jap Cobra available, you'd buy it...

Yes I'm aware that Nissan was the parent company. As far as the best in class, I guess it was the best crappy Jap car. (although the RX-7 would run circles around the Z)

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Why do I get the feeling if there was a Jap Cobra available, you'd buy it...

Yes I'm aware that Nissan was the parent company. As far as the best in class, I guess it was the best crappy Jap car. (although the RX-7 would run circles around the Z)

Jap Cobra?Nice non-sequitur.
Back to best in class-your ignorance is showing.Take a look at who that beat to win it.

BTW-name an American car that won it's class 10 years running.

RX-8?That Rotary pile of junk?That's laughable.Since the Z was busy winning it's class,that means the RX-8 was busy LOSING it.


Tucson Unified School District still has 1981 Vintage Datsun 720 Pick-ups IN SERVICE today.Who is still using 70's vintage Ford Or GM products today in revenue service?

One more poser for you:If Datsuns were just"crappy Jap stuff",then why did Pete Brock race them and win a sh!t-pot of races in them?

[Ron61]

I always liked the "Z" cars and had several friends who owned them. They seemed to be as well built and ran better than most other cars in their class. They used to have a lot of them that ran at the road course at Thunder Hill and they did very well.

Ron

[Jamo]

Hmmm...I had a Datsun 510 BRE and I still count it among the very best cars I ever owned.

[Ronbo]

Seem to remember a common mod to the Z was putting a small block chevy in it...

Bill, you folks should really budget some money to your school system. I've seen this before, no money for new stuff but an unlimited repair budget.

Twice now you've called me ignorant, I know it's the lounge but your out of line. Adults can agree to disagree.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Seem to remember a common mod to the Z was putting a small block chevy in it...

Bill, you folks should really budget some money to your school system. I've seen this before, no money for new stuff but an unlimited repair budget.

Twice now you've called me ignorant, I know it's the lounge but your out of line. Adults can agree to disagree.

SBCs in Z's(Scarabs) have there place.But since you can run 700 HP thru the factory I-6 before you need to pay special attention to the bottom end-why bother?


If frequency of repair was an issue-they would have been gone years ago.No-one keeps an older vehicle(especially in revenue service) if repairs are an issue.This is just logic.

And no,i am not out of line.When it comes to Datsuns(and Toyotas for that matter)of the 70's and Detroits attempt to compete,you are ignorant of the facts.Not an insult,not a dig.


But i do have to thank you for making me do a little research.

Where i found this little ditty:

"One truly inspiring Datsun story involves Tom Wyatt III, otherwise known as Turbo Tom. Turbo tom built a rather fast Turbo powered L20b Datsun 510 and entered in the "Walter Mitty" at Road Atlanta one year. The engine developed 275 horsepower at 21 pounds of boost for drag racing, with 250 more like it on the track. It featured at T04 Rotomaster Turbo and 4150 Holley carb set up.

As the story goes, SCCA officials started him out in class with similar style cars, but had to keep moving up in class as he blew the doors off each increasingly powerful group of cars. By the end of the day he was racing with the Corvettes and Cobras. He beat a Porsche 930 on a lap by nine seconds, and a race prepped 427 Cobra by 3 seconds. The race staff didn't know what to do, so they gave him a custom made trophy instead of embarrassing one of the more prestigious classes."


Point of info:The L-20B is a 2000 CC motor.

Below is a blurb about the car Jamo refers to and the results from ONE race in 1972:

"Morton and the BRE 510 were back in 72 to take 6 of 10 races entered. Nissan had transferred its focus to the 510 because the 240z was already selling so well. Several 240z's were racing but BRE and Bob Sharp to some degree were asked to push the sedan instead.

For a good example of just how much Datsuns dominated the racing scene in the 70's, just look at the 72 ARRC race at Road Atlanta.

B Sedan(Trans Am style cars)
1st Bob Sharp 510
2nd Walt Maas 510
3rd Jim Fitzgerald 510
4th Carl Fredericks BMW
5th Lothar Stahlberg 510

C sedan
spots 1-3 Austin C's
4th Jim Hensel Datsun 1200

C Production
1st Bob Sharp 240z
2nd Bob Tullius Triumph
3rd Jim Fitzgerald 240z
4th Al Holbert Porsche
5th Jim Gammon 240z
6th Ron Mcfarlin 240z

D production(roadsters)
1st Robert McQueen Datsun 2000 roadster
2nd B Fuersteneu Triumph
3rd Dan Parkinson Datsun roadster
4th Kirk Allegro Datsun roadster
5th Tom Costello Datsun roadster
6th Don Herman Datsun roadster "


For those interested,here's the link:

http://www.datsunhistory.com/Racehistory1.html


Ronbo-Crappy cars don't dominate.

and here's one of those "crappy Datsuns":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYcFsZgRvf4

[jbuchert]

I think the big three come a long way in the past five years in improving quality, fuel economy ect. In my oppinion they have met or in some cases improved beyond the foreign competition in quality/engineering. People have been brain washed into thinking foreign cars will run forever and get better fuel economy than what any American car can. At one time they may have been correct but those days are long gone. Its very sad but people also dont feel as strongly about supporting there country as they used to.. "buy American, its the American way.

I think GM has led the way in recent years with refining there product. Hell, even the Dodge boys are building a good car these days. I think Ford has the biggest issues with quality today and still gives the American auto market a bad name to some extent. While they have improved there line up considerably in the last couple of years it fails in comparison.

[Jamo]

OK, to resolve this...Bill, stop calling Ronbo ignorant. He isn't...he simply has an opinion. You're being an asshole.

Ronbo...you ignorant slut. {In my best SNL Akroid voice}

Now that we have resolved this to my satisfaction, I hereby moderate myself and ban Jamo from posting for a day about anything. Jamo the moderator, of course, is still on duty.

Obviously...

[Ron61]

I think GM has led the way in recent years with refining there product. Hell, even the Dodge boys are building a good car these days. I think Ford has the biggest issues with quality today and still gives the American auto market a bad name to some extent. While they have improved there line up considerably in the last couple of years it fails in comparison.

Not arguing just disagreeing. I haven't seen anything from GM that is world class except the Corvette and they have priced that out of the regular consumers price range. And if Ford is so terrible, why is it that GM is crying for more bail out money and Ford never took any? I agree that Ford has lagged in quality for some time, but their sales are better and their quality is just about on a par with GM now.

Well I just saw on the news this morning that GM is now really serious about bankruptcy. http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...e=businessNews

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

LMAO @Jamo. You never fail to make me laugh man.

[95CobraR]

Hitler talks about the new Datsun GT-R (sarcasm):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOAXJTTc__w