10 Cars That Sank Detroit

[Ron61]

Ok, I am getting my series mixed up. I remember them talking about the Audi's getting ready for the 24 hour of LeMans and they were running them at Sebring, I think it was, to test some things on them. Either way, I was impressed with them.

Ron

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Peugeot [FTF] is not far behind.

Jamo,
I have the utmost respect for a guy who remembers the prerequisite "FTF" anytime the F'n French or anything they do or make is mentioned.

As an airline pilot who flies nothing but Boeings I can proudly say that there is no bigger piece of crap in the sky than a F'n Airbus (FTF).

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Jamo,
I have the utmost respect for a guy who remembers the prerequisite "FTF" anytime the F'n French or anything they do or make is mentioned.

As an airline pilot who flies nothing but Boeings I can proudly say that there is no bigger piece of crap in the sky than a F'n Airbus (FTF).

As a engineer that works at Boeing and was there when the first 767 took off, I whole heartly agree with you. FTF and Airbus.

[Cobrabill]

My friends BF has some type of VW with a diesel and drove from CT to Fla. recently.He averaged 55 MPG.I don't know his average speed.


Typo fixed.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

My friends BF has a some type of VW with a diesel and drove from CT to Fla. recently.He averaged 55 MPH.

Many states along that path have speed limits of 65 MPH.
Do you know what kind of gas mileage he got?

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

My friends BF has a some type of VW with a diesel and drove from CT to Fla. recently.He averaged 55 MPH.

That's probably the new TDI motor that is going in both the VW's and Audi's. I read one magazine where a couple took a long trip (I think something like 1400 miles) with the VW Jetta with the new TDI and they averaged 57mpg. The drove very conservatively, but that is still unreal gas mileage. The guys I talked to at VW said a realistic average for someone who drives both around town on on the highway is about 45 which is still very good.

[Ron61]

Was that using our dirty diesel or did they find some that had been processed better? I don't see why we can't have both, the dirty for the trucks until they can phase them out and cleaner for cars such as this.

Ron

[Jamo]

Hmmm...I had a Datsun 510 BRE and I still count it among the very best cars I ever owned.

[Jamo]

OK, to resolve this...Bill, stop calling Ronbo ignorant. He isn't...he simply has an opinion. You're being an asshole.

Ronbo...you ignorant slut. {In my best SNL Akroid voice}

Now that we have resolved this to my satisfaction, I hereby moderate myself and ban Jamo from posting for a day about anything. Jamo the moderator, of course, is still on duty.

Obviously...

[Ron61]

I think GM has led the way in recent years with refining there product. Hell, even the Dodge boys are building a good car these days. I think Ford has the biggest issues with quality today and still gives the American auto market a bad name to some extent. While they have improved there line up considerably in the last couple of years it fails in comparison.

Not arguing just disagreeing. I haven't seen anything from GM that is world class except the Corvette and they have priced that out of the regular consumers price range. And if Ford is so terrible, why is it that GM is crying for more bail out money and Ford never took any? I agree that Ford has lagged in quality for some time, but their sales are better and their quality is just about on a par with GM now.

Well I just saw on the news this morning that GM is now really serious about bankruptcy. http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...e=businessNews

Ron

[jbuchert]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Not arguing just disagreeing. I haven't seen anything from GM that is world class except the Corvette and they have priced that out of the regular consumers price range. And if Ford is so terrible, why is it that GM is crying for more bail out money and Ford never took any? I agree that Ford has lagged in quality for some time, but their sales are better and their quality is just about on a par with GM now.

You have every right to disagree.

I think Ford has a trend lately of trying to revamp current or aged platforms with face lifts where GM has near completely redesigned there line up from the ground up.

In my profession I have to tear these cars appart and piece them back together everyday. I have repaired, rebuilt or restored just about every make/model out there inside and out. From unitized construction to full framed vehicles/trucks I have seen/experienced far more than most of you have when it comes to there construction.

[95CobraR]

Originally Posted by jbuchert

I think Ford has a trend lately of trying to revamp current or aged platforms with face lifts where GM has near completely redesigned there line up from the ground up.

Why has Ford refused government money while GM (and Chrysler) has had to take government money?

How did GM manage to lose $82B in the last four years? Why are they talking about GM's bankruptcy?

General Motors Corp.'s strategy for a quick trip through bankruptcy court is likely to spark legal challenges from bondholders worried about getting steamrolled.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123957652811811897.html

I don't read about Ford planning a quick trip through bankruptcy.

[Commodore]

Perception is one of the huge issues Detroit fumbled. The Euro cars cost more, spent more time and money on what then seemed like frivolous details but in doing so separated their products from the ordinary 'Joe Blow' cars coming out of Detroit. They had a certain exclusivity. They nurtured the, 'We have something you don't', mentality and stayed the course. The Asian products on the other hand offered much of the same but at bargain prices. They managed to capitalize on, 'We're different, reliable and practical at the same time'. Detroit was much to slow and perhaps arrogant to embrace either of those mentalities. Detroit couldn't understand that raising or lowering a fin, popping on a vinyl top with opera windows or other 'upscale' goodies would keep their one time loyal customers returning for variations on the same theme. Detroit forgot how to lead and is now paying the price. That and corporate greed landed them where they are today. The big three can design and build cars as well if not better than any automotive company in the world but only if management gives their engineers and assemblers a fair chance. Catching up can be painfully slow. I hope they all succeed.

[bart]

Originally Posted by 95CobraR

Why has Ford refused government money while GM (and Chrysler) has had to take government money?

I'm a bit of a smart arse, and I wanted to share a pretty cool (imo) picture that answers that question

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by 95CobraR

Why has Ford refused government money while GM (and Chrysler) has had to take government money?

The Ford family would get payed nothing if they recieved government help because all their income comes from stock dividends. I think that is the main reason they are not accepting money.

[Joe Wicked]

LMAO @Jamo. You never fail to make me laugh man.

[95CobraR]

Hitler talks about the new Datsun GT-R (sarcasm):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOAXJTTc__w

[Jamo]

That there was damn funny...love those Hitler spoofs.