Obama Gets Stern With North Korea

[acindrich]

Cobra bill I love you. Thanks for firing back in a sensible way against the moronic spew of so many anti-Obama posts. What they don't realize is how stupid they sound as they blow of their steam. I would try myself to respond but am afraid only f-bombs would come out and then I'd be no different than them. So, thanks again.

Obama is not the saviour but he represented something, anything that wasn't Bush!

[FWB]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Are you saying that you too believe that Obama means to take away the vote from American citizens? Do you think if I lived in the US, I would think there was even a remote possibility of that being on his agenda?
I am not criticizing for the sake of being a jerk - I am genuinely surprised that a rational, educated person would be that paranoid. So much so, in fact that I don't think you guys actually believe stuff like that at all. I think (hope) that the dislike for the man and his party and their associated policies is so intense that statements like that are a deliberate spouting of propoganda that you know to be false or at least unrealistic. My point then is that once people choose to indulge solely in negative rhetoric for its own sake, then there is little hope for civil debate or conversation as would normally occur in a "lounge".
The net result is that most threads posted here are doomed to deteriorate into polarized camps telling each other to piss off because the intention from the get go is to validate personal convictions and denigrate all others at the expense of everything else - including truth, honesty and general rationality.
Of course all of what I just typed will be instantly (and conveniently) interpreted as liberal, lefty, Obamamania B.S., but the truth is I feel that way about blind, unreasoning rhetoric no matter who is spewing it and regardless of who or what the target is.

buzz, don't get me wrong, while i think obama is wrong for the country, i don't seriously believe there won't be any elections. however he has certainly done a few questionable things so far that i find not to be in line with the countries constitution. i think ron, and i don't speak for ron, was just making a point that he feels obama won't let a silly thing like the constitution stand in his way of him staying in power. because that is all that matters to him. granted bush sucked, he wasn't conservative enough for me. obama, to me, seems farther to the left than lenin. i will just expect the worst from this administration so if he gets anything done that is of value, then it will be a bonus.

[Buzz]

Fair enough, but I think you should have more faith in America itself. I don't doubt that Obama, like many other politicians, would like to have the constitution treated "more as a set of guidelines, matey" (you have to say that in a Captain Barbosa accent for full effect) in order to give him more leeway to run things the way he wants, but in reality, the constitution is not all that easy to mess with. If it was, "well intentioned" political leaders in an effort to save the citizens from themselves would have trashed the second amendment long ago. Even the most myopic politicians recognize that interfering with what Americans accept as basic, fundamental, constitutional rights is political suicide.

[FWB]

there is alot of controversy over the constitution, whether it is static or a document for interpretation and manipulation. i have faith in america, just no faith in politicians.
there are very few that i can say are the peoples representatives. most work for their own agenda and ignore their constituents.
while messing with the constitution may in effect be political suicide now, americans in general are ignorant of the political process and even the type of gov't we have. so as time goes on politicians will be able to manipulate public opinion to whatever they deem to be "good for all" and changes will happen while we walk around with stupid looks on our faces.

[Ron61]

Buzz old buddy, my statements were made with a tongue in cheek type meaning. I in no way think that even Obama can take away the vote. I should have used smileys, and I do not think he is any good for the country, but I hope for the country's sake he can do some good. Never take anything that I post about politicians, my favorite target for jokes, as serious. What I really think I never make known except in e-mails to my Senators. I do however think that he is short circuiting the constitution on some things.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ron

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by acindrich

Cobra bill I love you. Thanks for firing back in a sensible way against the moronic spew of so many anti-Obama posts. What they don't realize is how stupid they sound as they blow of their steam. I would try myself to respond but am afraid only f-bombs would come out and then I'd be no different than them. So, thanks again.

Obama is not the saviour but he represented something, anything that wasn't Bush!

Go ahead and respond. If you can give any good things he has accomplished then you won't be flamed. Bill and I disagree on several things but we can do so without the name calling and when he shows me I am wrong I will admit it just as I did with Buzz. I should use the smileys more often when referring to Obama. I to wanted change and was tired of the stay to it path, but this was not the change that I had expected or wanted. You call us moronic, yet you base everything on just the fact he isn't Bush. doesn't really make you much of a deep thinker either does it.

Ron

[Wayne Maybury]

For those of you that want Obama to strike hard at North Korea, are you willing to start an all out confrontation with China as well? Let's face it, the US, or anyone else, cannot do much about NK without having China fully on board. As long as China protects NK, the rest of the world must go along for the ride.

If NK were to do something really stupid like directing a missile at Japan or North America, then the rules of the game would change. NK would then have taken, what amounts to an act of war and retaliation could be justified. I doubt that even China would protect them in that case. Until then the world will continue to tell NK to stop being such a bad boy, in very correct, diplomatic terms.

Wayne

[VRM]

Unfortunately, Bush and Obama have both contributed to the weakening of our hand when it comes to dealing with China. We are better off working within the UN rules on this because of the input that China has - we may be able to tell from a Chinese vote abstention that they might want the problem taken care of, but that they do not want to be the ones to do it.
Prior administrations caved to NK when they restarted tests or whatever - they have learned to do something dramatic every so often to get something they want. We need to stop providing an incentive and start providing penalties.

Steve

[Buzz]

Wayne, that is a sad reality for most people around the world. I'm sure everyone except the hardcore pacifists (is that an oxymoron?) and staunch enemies of Western Society really wish that some sort of disciplinary strike could be used to slap some sense into NK and its ludicrous cartoon-character leader, but we all know the real issue is the Chinese connection.

Lil' Kim is playing on that like a spoiled kid messing with people, counting on the people knowing that if they spank his ass, it may lead to a nasty fight with his big brother.

So instead of beating the lttle punk, the people ask his brother to please keep him under control. Big brother China agrees the lil' bastard is getting out of hand but does very little because of his own insecurities and his need to keep the "family" intact.

Afraid of showing any sign of weakness, China desperately perpetuates its role as a deterrent to Western military action, but they sleep uneasily at night, fearing that the out of control little prick will eventually go too far and force the others' hand, leaving them in the uncomfortale position of having to then decide what to do - shut up and back down, or stand up for family and escalate to all out conflict with the West. It is that realisation we can only hope will prod China's self interest into clipping NK's wings, before they get forced into a war they cannot win.

The danger on the other side of the coin is that China, in their cultural way of thinking, may see Western restraint as fear or weakness and, fortified by the economic woes in the West, actually encourage NK to keep pushing just to see how far the US will continue to back down. Games of chicken often reach a point where something eventually has to give and, with such high stakes, the $hit will hit the fan big time.

As much as many would like to paint Obama as a wuss, consider for the sake of argument the possibility that he isn't ( I know, I know). While it is always comforting to label someone you dislike and distrust as a coward, it is also wise to know your enemy.

Obama's run from obscurity up to the highest office in the US is peppered with examples of a cold, calculating shrewdness. He systematically eliminated obstacles and seized on strategic opportunities. With the goal line in sight, he handily dispatched the powerful Clinton alliance and went on to calmly defeat the formidable McCain/Palin opposition. His track record may not say much about the skills and experience necessary to lead the nation, but it does point to a man driven to achieve what he wants and, more importantly, equipped with the brass ball$ to make it happen - whether you like him or not. He's not stupid either and he also knows that he is yet to prove to the American people that he is a capable Commander in Chief. That, and with the spectre of another election looming on the horizon, his own self interest could just make him dangerous.

Based on that and without bias or emotion, I submit that there is a 50/50 chance that Obama will take a stronger stance against North Korea than any president in the modern era.

My own probably unrealistic wish is that the US would be able to take some sort of action to blow that next missile to kingdom come. Ideally, it should be a surgical, stealthy operation that would leave everyone wondering WTH just happened. US response to the ensuing outcry should be silence. Fall short of outright admitting responsibility but knowing damn well everyone gets the message. Reiterate that any incursion by the North into South Korea will, as always, be met with forceful mititary reprisal. Bank on the reality that China will piss and moan but save face and take the out that the US offers them (through a lack of aggressive military posturing) and sensibly shy away from escalation. Hey - a guy can dream, right?

[fsstnotch]

I don't believe anybody is saying we should "invade" NK. But enough is enough! It's the same game everytime and they never stop. it's about time someone makes a stand and ENFORCES the sanctions! China will be ready to stand up when millions of refugees are fleeing into their country. They do not want their bastard children in their country!

[Wayne Maybury]

fsstnotch I don't think that the Chinese would allow any massive migration from NK into China. They play by their own rules and wouldn't think twice about telling them to turn around, or else........ However you never know what they will do. They have been known to slaughter their own people.

Buzz Building on your dream scenario, the US could tell the Chinese, in advance, that the next NK missile to be launched will not go very far once it is over open water. ZAP, it's gone.

Wayne

[Sharroll Celby]

OR, when NK launches its missile, (and after its probable harmless fall into the ocean), we could launch a submarine-based cruise missile, have it land in NK, and then ridicule NK for sloppy missile-launch directions!!! lol !!!

[FWB]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

I don't believe anybody is saying we should "invade" NK. But enough is enough! It's the same game everytime and they never stop. it's about time someone makes a stand and ENFORCES the sanctions! China will be ready to stand up when millions of refugees are fleeing into their country. They do not want their bastard children in their country!

its all fun and games til kims hair takes an eye out...

[acindrich]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Go ahead and respond. If you can give any good things he has accomplished then you won't be flamed. Bill and I disagree on several things but we can do so without the name calling and when he shows me I am wrong I will admit it just as I did with Buzz. I should use the smileys more often when referring to Obama. I to wanted change and was tired of the stay to it path, but this was not the change that I had expected or wanted. You call us moronic, yet you base everything on just the fact he isn't Bush. doesn't really make you much of a deep thinker either does it.

Ron

Ron,

The guy has 150 days in office. I think he's TRYING to accomplish many things. At least my disdain for Bush is with the hindsight of his 8 years in office.

You are correct that name calling rarely accomplishes anything. And, two wrongs don't make a right, so I shouldn't do it either. But, look at the title of the thread. Is that not name calling? I guess I get tired of logging on to CC and seeing so many abusively titled threads. It is clearly within the pervue of a member to either build up or tear down the President, but isn't it also within the pervue of a reader to consequently build up or tear down the originator? I saw Cobra bill defending someone and I let my applause of his efforts dip into name calling. Please accept my apologies for that. I'll do my best not to let my distaste for mean spirited threads drag me down to the level of those that post such stuff.

Finally, what I was refering to with my name calling was the "name calling". Not Bush supporters. I do want to be clear on that. Maybe there I also should give a lot of leeway as I'm sure non-conservatives were not polite to Bush when he was in office the same way non-liberals appear to be rather harsh to the current President.

[fsstnotch]

FWB, that pic is hilarious!

acindrich, forgive me but when i read your post it translates into the same old "I inherited this" slogan. At some point that isn't going to work anymore.

[Buzz]

LMAO!! If that's what you get from reading his post, brother, you have a serious comprehension disability.

[acindrich]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

FWB, that pic is hilarious!

acindrich, forgive me but when i read your post it translates into the same old "I inherited this" slogan. At some point that isn't going to work anymore.

Except its true in this case. The President inherited a problem initiated by the Dems (fair housing) and made substatively worse by the Republicans (war spending). Further, I guess I should clarify that my original post was my rant against constantly being afronted by threads that start with stuff like, "Opuzzy, gets...." Can't he be called the President, or President Obama. I could go back through countless posts where the thread starts in some incredibly insulting way. And, back to my original post. I think when you hear the same people starting a thread with the same spew over and over I do think it makes them look like Morons. Like their a record skipping a groove and replaying the same tired old insulting lines again and again. Now, when Bush was in office I probably would have to say the same thing about Liberals who likely started every thread with some offensive bashing of the then President Bush. Problem is I wasn't on CC back then. So all I see is what appears to be a bunch of mean spirited conservatives starting threads all the time with things like Opuzzy. It sucks!

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by acindrich

.... my rant against constantly being afronted by threads that start with stuff like, "Opuzzy, gets...." Can't he be called the President, or President Obama. I could go back through countless posts where the thread starts in some incredibly insulting way. ... So all I see is what appears to be a bunch of mean spirited conservatives starting threads all the time with things like Opuzzy. It sucks!

It is childish school-yard stuff, mostly from some apparently very tortured souls who are sadly stuck with four (or maybe eight) years of pain.

I don't care who is in office...nor, do I care what party or ideology he subscribes to. As an American though, I do respect the Office.

Your suggestion is taken.

Any future posts that mock the man's name in derision will be edited. Repeat offenders will be able to continue on someotherforum.com.

Thanks for speaking up on this

ron
ClubCobra Moderator

[cobra bill]

Ron, Thank you for standing up on this issue, I as you know I have never been a fan of George Bush, but as president I would never disparage him, at times its hard to be civil with some that would, though I think no matter who was in office if they were a democrat the same hatred would come out. So once again thanks.

[Jamo]

....suckup