Dems Cap & Tax Bill Requires All Homes to Meet Eco-Standards Before They Can Be Sold

[392cobra]

Democraps had better tread real careful... they have more or less full control in DC and there won't be anyone they can point their fingers at come election time.


Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Dems Cap & Tax Bill Requires All Homes to Meet Eco-Standards Before They Can Be Sold

If you were thinking of selling your home, you might as well forget about it.
You'll have to spend thousands to help battle non-existent global warming first.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...ulder-for.html

Under the new democratic cap and trade legislation all US homes will have to meet strict government eco-standards before they can be sold. This will cost homeowners thousands of dollars before the home can even be put up for sale.
CNS News reported, via Free Republic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2283127/posts

The 1,400-page cap-and-trade legislation pushed through by House Democrats contains a new federal policy that residential, commercial, and government buildings be retrofitted to increase energy efficiency, leaving it up to the states to figure out exactly how to do that.

This means that homeowners, for example, could be required to retrofit their homes to meet federal “green” guidelines in order to sell their homes, if the cap-and-trade bill becomes law.

The bill, which now goes to the Senate, directs the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to develop and implement a national policy for residential and commercial buildings. The purpose of such a strategy – known as the Retrofit for Energy and Environmental Performance (REEP) – would be to “facilitate” the retrofitting of existing buildings nationwide.

“The Administrator shall develop and implement, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy, standards for a national energy and environmental building retrofit policy for single-family and multi-family residences,” the bill reads.

It continues: “The purpose of the REEP program is to facilitate the retrofitting of existing buildings across the United States.”

The bill leaves the definition of a retrofit and the details of the REEP program up to the EPA. However, states are responsible for ensuring that the government’s plans are carried out, whatever the final details may entail.

“States shall maintain responsibility for meeting the standards and requirements of the REEP program,” the bill says.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...-homes-to.html

[computerworks]

How else would you institute across the board energy efficiency changes?

"To help pay for the cost of these retrofits, states and localities may provide loans, utility rate rebates, tax rebates, or implement retrofit programs on their own. In fact, the government will even pay up to 50 percent of the cost of a retrofit through financial awards to individual home and building owners."

“States shall maintain responsibility for meeting the standards and requirements of the REEP program,” the bill says.

Get it paid for and let the States administer. So what is wrong here?

Other than it isn't even in the Senate and nowhere near being a law...and the tin-foil-hat bloggers are unhappy.

Can you find a "blogspot" that proposes a better alternative?

[4RE KLR]

Unfortunately the government can't pay the bills it has right now, let alone adding new ones to reimburse every single property owner in the US for remodeling their homes.

Effectively that is what will happen. Sure some (most) of the additions will be for energy efficiency, but you know people will figure out a way to get a new bathroom or kitchen in the deal.

Builders have building to NEW standards for decades.

GTG, (meeting)
I'll be back to finish what I am trying to get at.

[computerworks]

You're right there, Steve...The gov can't pay this either.

But (hypothetically) if I can get a set of new efficient windows on my 60 years old house when it comes time to sell and have the local utility foot 50-75% of the bill and the state, etc give rebates for the rest...and it enhances the value of my resale and saves some energy....what so bad here?

[cobra de capell]

Get it paid for and let the States administer. So what is wrong here?

Why do it now? Why not spend more time planning such a huge change? Is it really necessary, anyway? "The government will pay" - that would be us, right - since the government doesn't have money unless we give it to them through taxes?

Also.....

The climate bill that passed the House last week on a 219-212 vote includes a provision to impose tariffs -- starting in 2020 -- on imports from countries that don't have a system for limiting global warming pollution.

WTF? This will get passed on to all Americans.

This forced retrofit is more government intrusion and another reason to contact your Senators to voice your opposition to this socialist bill. We need to pour it on every single day, not just 24 hours before the vote. Keep up the pressure! Flood Capital Hill with phone calls, emails and faxes! Toll free Capital Switchboard numbers are below.

800-828-0498

877-762-8762

[1ntCobra]

Just think about those nasty energy inefficient historic homes built in the 1700's. They need some energy efficient windows, insulation, vinyl siding and solar panels.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

Under the new democratic cap and trade legislation all US homes will have to meet strict government eco-standards before they can be sold.

This means that homeowners, for example, could be required to retrofit their homes to meet federal “green” guidelines in order to sell their homes, if the cap-and-trade bill becomes law.

This is another 'sky is falling' post. The bill says nothing about not being able to sell a house. If that were to happen it would be at the state level, and it is something they already have the power to do.

I love how 'could' and 'will' are interchangeable. More bloggers that do not understand English. There is nothing that forces anybody to do anything.

My state currently offers incentives to do things like install insulation, more efficient windows, and better heating/cooling units. If you do not want to upgrade, the choice is yours. I pass a couple of houses on my way to work that have broken windows that are patched with duct tape. I wonder how much heat they lose during cold New England winters. They could probably spend $100-$150 to get a new one that would pay for itself in a couple of years.
Is that wealth redistribution? Absolutely.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Did you read the bill, VRM? I doubt it....

The bill creates a Federal Government Administrator - once this is done, all kinds of requirements are bound to follow....with states simply in the role of carrying out the requirements. You really need to wake up.

GPO PDF HR 2454 As Passed, 1254 Pages here are the specific cites:

“The Administrator shall develop and implement, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy, standards for a national energy and environmental building retrofit policy for single-family and multi-family residences,” the bill reads. (Page 351 Lines 5-9)

It continues: “The purpose of the REEP program is to facilitate the retrofitting of existing buildings across the United States.” (Page 351 Lines 19- 23)

The bill leaves the definition of a retrofit and the details of the REEP program up to the EPA. However, states are responsible for ensuring that the government’s plans are carried out, whatever the final details may entail.

“States shall maintain responsibility for meeting the standards and requirements of the REEP program,” the bill says. (Page 354 Lines 13-15)

States may contract with private agencies to oversee the retrofitting and measuring of improved efficiency and environmental friendliness of houses and other buildings, making sure that private citizens have a variety of choices for retrofitting their homes.

“States and local government entities may administer a REEP program in a manner that authorizes public or regulated investor-owned utilities, building auditors and inspectors, contractors, nonprofit organizations, for-profit companies, and other entities to perform audits and retrofit services,” reads the bill. (Page 354 Lines 1-7)

It further says, “A State or local administrator of a REEP program shall seek to ensure that sufficient qualified entities are available to support retrofit activities so that building owners have a competitive choice among qualified auditors, raters, contractors, and providers of services related to retrofits.” (Page 355 Lines 10)

In fact, individual homeowners are even allowed to retrofit buildings themselves. The bill gives specific protection to individual owners’ rights to choose who inspects and retrofits their property.

“Nothing in this section is intended to deny the right of a building owner to choose the specific providers of retrofit services to engage for a retrofit project in that owner’s building.” (Page 355 Lines 16-19)

Even though Congress says the states are responsible for carrying out the retrofits, the EPA and the Department of Energy will establish the guidelines and rules for doing so.

“The Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy, shall establish goals, guidelines, practices, and standards for accomplishing the purpose stated in subsection (c) [the retrofits],” the bill says. (Page 356 Lines 3 -6)

The program would involve a system of certified auditors, inspectors, and raters who inspect homes and businesses using devices such as infrared cameras (which measure how much heat a building is giving off) to measure their energy efficiency. (Page 356 Lines 10-19)

The results of these energy audits would then be used to determine what retrofits need to be performed. The audits would examine things like water usage, infrared photography, and pressurized testing to determine the efficiency of door and window seals, and indoor air quality. (Page 357 Lines 3-12) Those retrofits would be performed by licensed retrofit contractors using government-approved methods and resources including roofing materials that reflect solar energy.

“[b]uilding retrofits conducted pursuant to a REEP program utilize, especially in all air-conditioned buildings, roofing materials with high solar energy reflectance,” the legislation states. (Page 357 Lines 13-16)

After the retrofitting is complete, the government – state, local, or federal – will come back and re-inspect the house to determine how much energy has been saved and whether the retrofit is up to federal government standards.

“Determination of energy savings in a performance-based building retrofit program through — (A) for residential buildings, comparison of before and after retrofit scores,” the proposal states. (Page 357 Lines 24 & 25 Page 358 Lines 1-5)

To help pay for the cost of these retrofits, states and localities may provide loans, utility rate rebates, tax rebates, or implement retrofit programs on their own. In fact, the government will even pay up to 50 percent of the cost of a retrofit through financial awards to individual home and building owners.

“PERCENTAGE.—Awards under clause (i) shall not exceed 50 percent of retrofit costs for each building,” reads the bill. Page 364 Lines 15-17)
_____

"The Administrator" is the Federal Government can someone say, "Tenth Ammendment?"

[FWB]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Did you read the bill, VRM? I doubt it....

The bill creates a Federal Government Administrator - once this is done, all kinds of requirements are bound to follow....with states simply in the role of carrying out the requirements. You really need to wake up.

GPO PDF HR 2454 As Passed, 1254 Pages here are the specific cites:

“The Administrator shall develop and implement, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy, standards for a national energy and environmental building retrofit policy for single-family and multi-family residences,” the bill reads. (Page 351 Lines 5-9)

It continues: “The purpose of the REEP program is to facilitate the retrofitting of existing buildings across the United States.” (Page 351 Lines 19- 23)

The bill leaves the definition of a retrofit and the details of the REEP program up to the EPA. However, states are responsible for ensuring that the government’s plans are carried out, whatever the final details may entail.

“States shall maintain responsibility for meeting the standards and requirements of the REEP program,” the bill says. (Page 354 Lines 13-15)

States may contract with private agencies to oversee the retrofitting and measuring of improved efficiency and environmental friendliness of houses and other buildings, making sure that private citizens have a variety of choices for retrofitting their homes.

“States and local government entities may administer a REEP program in a manner that authorizes public or regulated investor-owned utilities, building auditors and inspectors, contractors, nonprofit organizations, for-profit companies, and other entities to perform audits and retrofit services,” reads the bill. (Page 354 Lines 1-7)

It further says, “A State or local administrator of a REEP program shall seek to ensure that sufficient qualified entities are available to support retrofit activities so that building owners have a competitive choice among qualified auditors, raters, contractors, and providers of services related to retrofits.” (Page 355 Lines 10)

In fact, individual homeowners are even allowed to retrofit buildings themselves. The bill gives specific protection to individual owners’ rights to choose who inspects and retrofits their property.

“Nothing in this section is intended to deny the right of a building owner to choose the specific providers of retrofit services to engage for a retrofit project in that owner’s building.” (Page 355 Lines 16-19)

Even though Congress says the states are responsible for carrying out the retrofits, the EPA and the Department of Energy will establish the guidelines and rules for doing so.

“The Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy, shall establish goals, guidelines, practices, and standards for accomplishing the purpose stated in subsection (c) [the retrofits],” the bill says. (Page 356 Lines 3 -6)

The program would involve a system of certified auditors, inspectors, and raters who inspect homes and businesses using devices such as infrared cameras (which measure how much heat a building is giving off) to measure their energy efficiency. (Page 356 Lines 10-19)

The results of these energy audits would then be used to determine what retrofits need to be performed. The audits would examine things like water usage, infrared photography, and pressurized testing to determine the efficiency of door and window seals, and indoor air quality. (Page 357 Lines 3-12) Those retrofits would be performed by licensed retrofit contractors using government-approved methods and resources including roofing materials that reflect solar energy.

“[b]uilding retrofits conducted pursuant to a REEP program utilize, especially in all air-conditioned buildings, roofing materials with high solar energy reflectance,” the legislation states. (Page 357 Lines 13-16)

After the retrofitting is complete, the government – state, local, or federal – will come back and re-inspect the house to determine how much energy has been saved and whether the retrofit is up to federal government standards.

“Determination of energy savings in a performance-based building retrofit program through — (A) for residential buildings, comparison of before and after retrofit scores,” the proposal states. (Page 357 Lines 24 & 25 Page 358 Lines 1-5)

To help pay for the cost of these retrofits, states and localities may provide loans, utility rate rebates, tax rebates, or implement retrofit programs on their own. In fact, the government will even pay up to 50 percent of the cost of a retrofit through financial awards to individual home and building owners.

“PERCENTAGE.—Awards under clause (i) shall not exceed 50 percent of retrofit costs for each building,” reads the bill. Page 364 Lines 15-17)
_____

"The Administrator" is the Federal Government can someone say, "Tenth Ammendment?"

it's just about to the point where we would be more free as people to live in a third world country.

cdc, yes the tenth.....but can a state that follows through on it survive or want to survive without the feds money it robs from us. when do we reach the point when we call the federal gov't tyrannical?
and will it matter?

[joe g]

Put my house up for sale on Saturday, think its sold already- before all this mess takes place
joeg

[dl95409]

Originally Posted by computerworks

...and it enhances the value of my resale and saves some energy...

OK - it might save some energy - but where do you see it enhancing the value of your house if every other house on the market has the same upgrades as mandated? I would think that it would only enhance your value if yours was the only one offering the benefit.

Plus, we're in the worst global recession in decades....and the government thinks it makes sense to add on more costs, more administration, more rules, and - yes - more taxes? Who thinks up this crap?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Did you read the bill, VRM? I doubt it....

The bill creates a Federal Government Administrator - once this is done, all kinds of requirements are bound to follow....with states simply in the role of carrying out the requirements. You really need to wake up.

"The Administrator" is the Federal Government can someone say, "Tenth Ammendment?"

CdC,
Keep the personal comments to yourself or you will get this thread closed as well.

I've read through this part before, as well as a couple of other sections (regarding nuke power/renewable power, and cars). I can give you a link if you want to read the full text of the bill that passed the House.

There is nothing in the bill that says anything about not being able to sell a house. The bill does define an administrator to come up with a set of standards that can be applied to new buildings, as well as improvements that can be made to existing buildings. If you want to sell a house with an 'Energy Star' rating (or whatever they want to call it) then you have to meet certain criteria. There is nothing mandatory about it, but there are financial incentives.

The administrator defines the standards - this is mostly good as a universal standard is easier to manage and test than 50 individual ones. The real drawback is that fine tuning to individual state climates will probably be more difficult to manage; attic insulation in FL is a lot less crucial than in ME. We do this now with gasoline, and that has caused problems in the past.

As far as what might happen that is pure speculation, but this bill makes no provisions for any sort of lock-down on home or property sales for not complying with any of the standards yet to be defined.

Steve

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by dl95409

OK - it might save some energy - but where do you see it enhancing the value of your house

The ad says: "..all new Andersen windows..." Must be good for an uptick of a couple of grand at resale.

Originally Posted by dl95409

Who thinks up this crap?

Why... the folks you elected.

[cobra de capell]

Continue drawing a happy face around everything Obama if you must - be even you will wake up some day but for you it may be too late. I'll all charge forward while you parse the meaning and words - try looking at the big picture of what's happening, not just the words - Obama lies, regularly - this stuff is simply a path to more crap, expensive crap.

Wake up.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by dl95409

OK - it might save some energy - but where do you see it enhancing the value of your house if every other house on the market has the same upgrades as mandated? I would think that it would only enhance your value if yours was the only one offering the benefit.

Plus, we're in the worst global recession in decades....and the government thinks it makes sense to add on more costs, more administration, more rules, and - yes - more taxes? Who thinks up this crap?

There is no mandate! There is nothing in the bill that will force anybody to make any sort of upgrades. If you want to make them then the government will contribute part of the cost. It will also provide for a bit of a long term stimulus in that it will provide jobs for window and insulation companies. I'm hoping that the incentive expires after a year or two - the smart people will jump on the bandwagon and get upgraded without having to pay for the whole thing. The slower folks will then have to pay for their own upgrades in order to keep their houses competitive in the market.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by computerworks

The ad says: "..all new Andersen windows..." Must be good for an uptick of a couple of grand at resale.

But, any house you look at will be also be a couple of grand more.

Why... the folks you elected.

Not true. I've never voted for a Democrat.

Let's blame this on VRM, Excaliber and Cobra (space) Bill....

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Continue drawing a happy face around everything Obama if you must - be even you will wake up some day but for you it may be too late. I'll all charge forward while you parse the meaning and words - try looking at the big picture of what's happening, not just the words - Obama lies, regularly - this stuff is simply a path to more crap, expensive crap.

Wake up.

I would rather pursue the things that are actually a problem and not go off tilting at windmills. Politicians lie - I do not trust any of them, but in this case any sort of implementation is up to the states so they will need to be watched carefully to make sure that they do not implement any sort of regulation like the one that you think this bill already contains.

Steve

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by VRM

There is no mandate! There is nothing in the bill that will force anybody to make any sort of upgrades. If you want to make them then the government will contribute part of the cost. It will also provide for a bit of a long term stimulus in that it will provide jobs for window and insulation companies. I'm hoping that the incentive expires after a year or two - the smart people will jump on the bandwagon and get upgraded without having to pay for the whole thing. The slower folks will then have to pay for their own upgrades in order to keep their houses competitive in the market.

Steve

There is nothing in bankruptcy laws that says that bond holders will be the first screwed either. In fact the laws says they are the first to be paid. That sure happened. Not.
How can you believe in ANY benevolence on the part of this power mad administration. Power is their mantra, laws mean nothing to them.

NOT a single thing in any of their 'rush to pass' legislation has preformed as claimed it would. ALWAYS bastardized to increase their power and control.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Continue drawing a happy face around everything Obama if you must - be even you will wake up some day but for you it may be too late. I'll all charge forward while you parse the meaning and words - try looking at the big picture of what's happening, not just the words - Obama lies, regularly - this stuff is simply a path to more crap, expensive crap.

Wake up.

You have ceased making sense here?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Let's blame this on VRM, Excaliber and Cobra (space) Bill....

Not me - the guy I voted for was a REAL conservative. A little shrill, with a nutty idea or two, but still conservative.