Obamacare Meltdown

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

They've been talking about tort reform for years, long before the current crisis. For some reason it keeps getting swept under the table...

What CRISIS?
crisis Noun
pl -ses
1. a crucial stage or turning point in the course of anything( See Obama's career)

2. a time of extreme trouble or danger

Crisis is a liberal FEAR word that has no place in the current situation.

Health care COSTS needs some adjustments. American health care TREATMENT is the best in the world. All statements to the contrary are LIES! And even if they were true, American health care TREATMENT is still fine.
Insurance Companies are obummers new villain of the moment. Insurance company premiums AND profits are and have been controlled by Government regulation for years.

If NO bill is passed this year or next or the next, our health care system will carry on still needing some adjustments. But it still will NOT be in CRISIS.
It is a MEDIUM HIGH priority problem to be fixed as FUNDS are available.
Bill and Hillary said CRISIS 16 years ago. Nothing got fixed and we still have the finest care available and still no crisis. The difference is they did not bet their careers on health care.

The health care machine needs plugs and the timing set. It does not need to go to the crusher like a clunker in favor of a new model, YET TO BE, designed by a committee that knows NOTHING about designing an efficient machine.

[cobra de capell]

The bottomline....

In the 48 hours of June 15-16, President Obama lost the health-care debate. First, a letter from the Congressional Budget Office to Sen. Edward Kennedy reported that his health committee’s reform bill would add $1 trillion in debt over the next decade. Then the CBO reported that the other Senate bill, being written by the Finance Committee, would add $1.6 trillion. The central contradiction of Obamacare was fatally exposed: From his first address to Congress, Obama insisted on the dire need for restructuring the health-care system because out-of-control costs were bankrupting the Treasury and wrecking the U.S. economy — yet the Democrats’ plans would make the problem worse.

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

The bottomline....

In the 48 hours of June 15-16, President Obama lost the health-care debate. First, a letter from the Congressional Budget Office to Sen. Edward Kennedy reported that his health committee’s reform bill would add $1 trillion in debt over the next decade. Then the CBO reported that the other Senate bill, being written by the Finance Committee, would add $1.6 trillion. The central contradiction of Obamacare was fatally exposed: From his first address to Congress, Obama insisted on the dire need for restructuring the health-care system because out-of-control costs were bankrupting the Treasury and wrecking the U.S. economy — yet the Democrats’ plans would make the problem worse.

The debates not lost, the democrats are stupid in many ways, they don't have a clue how to unite, Bush got every single thing he asked for because the Republicans do know how to unite, even if they know they are wrong. We still have the numbers on our side, the fringe that is shouting down the debate at these town hall meetings are the 35%ers, the dumber then Joe the plumbers if you will, it won't take long after the recess is over for these idiot democrats to finally decide that there's no point in even trying for by-partisan bill, they need to just shove that increasingly meaningless bigoted party of whack jobs aside and just get the job done. I know you guys are crying this is not your America, well you lost the election we own it and it's our turn to fix what you broke, and for all you poor white folks out there that can't stand the black man in the Whitehouse, a women as secretary of state and god forbid a Hispanic on the supreme court. You can't have a melting pot without the gravy getting darker! So get used to it, it's a new America

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

and for all you poor white folks out there that can't stand the black man in the Whitehouse, a women as secretary of state and god forbid a Hispanic on the supreme court. You can't have a melting pot without the gravy getting darker! So get used to it, it's a new America

You are way beyond just having a severe ADHD problem.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

The debates not lost, the democrats are stupid in many ways, they don't have a clue how to unite, Bush got every single thing he asked for because the Republicans do know how to unite, even if they know they are wrong. We still have the numbers on our side, the fringe that is shouting down the debate at these town hall meetings are the 35%ers, the dumber then Joe the plumbers if you will, it won't take long after the recess is over for these idiot democrats to finally decide that there's no point in even trying for by-partisan bill, they need to just shove that increasingly meaningless bigoted party of whack jobs aside and just get the job done. I know you guys are crying this is not your America, well you lost the election we own it and it's our turn to fix what you broke, and for all you poor white folks out there that can't stand the black man in the Whitehouse, a women as secretary of state and god forbid a Hispanic on the supreme court. You can't have a melting pot without the gravy getting darker! So get used to it, it's a new America

"bigoted party of whack jobs aside and just get the job done. I know you guys are crying this is not your America, well you lost the election we own it and it's our turn to fix what you broke, and for all you poor white folks out there that can't stand the black man in the Whitehouse, a women as secretary of state and god forbid a Hispanic on the supreme court. You can't have a melting pot without the gravy getting darker! So get used to it, it's a new America"

So EXPOSING yourself as a TOTAL RACIST will make us come over to your cause?

IS lying a way to get a good bill passed? Because your pres lied his ass off in Montana today. He told a story about a man came down with a serious health condition and just as treatment was about to start, his insurance canceled him because he had gall stones he never told them about YEARS AGO! And without treatment the man died! That IS AN OUTRIGHT INTENTIONAL LIE. Partly by omission and partly by commission. obummer IS a lawyer, he knows that an insurance company cannot do this. What happened is the man applied for an insurance policy LESS than 2 years before he developed his serious condition. In his application he failed to disclose that he had already been diagnosed with gall stones and needed an operation FOR THAT. He was waiting for 2 years to pass so he could DEFRAUD the insurance company. See health policies give the insurance companies 2 years to find pre-existing conditions. But it costs them money to do a total medical research on every applicant. So they very often do not check medical records unless a claim is made. Well a claim was made and they checked his medical history and found he lied on his application. Had he told the truth in the first place, the ins, co. most likely would have attached a rider to his policy not covering a gall bladder operation for 5 or 10 years. But otherwise his policy would have been IN FORCE. But his intention was to hold out the 2 years and make them pay for the gall bladder. Nature screwed him and HE SCREWED HIM. obummer KNOWS that is how insurance works and also knows that the insurance has to and did return every cent of premiums he paid. Instead he twists the story to make an insurance company the bad guy and the criminally fraudulent man the victim.

If a bill has to be sold with LIES, it cannot be a good bill.
But unlikely you will be able to see that through racist eyes.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Dan40

If NO bill is passed this year or next or the next, our health care system will carry on still needing some adjustments. But it still will NOT be in CRISIS.

Correct. But 47 million Americans, many of whom refuse to carry their own weight in our society, continue to go without coverage. Of course, they can still walk into any emergency room in America and be treated, but they can't get a pill for every little pain and they just don't want to be bothered with those dang ER bills piling up. So until all of the poor, lazy, unfortunate or indigent people in this country are on a government-run plan, the Obama administration will continue manufacturing the CRISIS.

[cobra de capell]

They need to try again......

Open wide everyone......incoming....

[Gordon Claunch]

Say AHHH!!

[Jamo]

Ok, style points for a good recovery, and a bonus for historical knowledge...

Hehehe...and a copy of Crusoe on my bookshelf behind me.

[BeanCounter]

CdC, no one is forced to take Cobra. In fact now that we have creditable coverage laws a person could decline Cobra and take out a high deductible catastrophic plan for less than $150 per month. The problem today is that everyone thinks they must have 1st dollar coverage. Without deductibles and copays no one would think twice about going in for every little sniffle and ache. People fail to remember that insurance companies, unlike the Treasury, can't just print money if the premiums they charge do not cover the cost of the services. Remember there are a group of people out there who's yearly health costs run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. That must be distributed out amongst all the people in the form of premiums to cover it. There are also people who use less than the average. Thankfully they far outweigh the high service users. I hear the liberals constantly blaming insurance companies but have not heard one of them quote numbers as to "obscene" returns on their business. They in fact make less of a return than what most businesses do.

VRM, excuse me but bull****. Yes I made over a $100,000 a year. But my Dad loaded 150 lb flour sacks in boxcars for General Mills and my Mom made Folgers coffee cans for the American Can company. We drove an old car and had a 850 sq ft house for the 5 of us. I got my winter coats from Goodwill. That was so my folks could save enough money to send all three of us to college. We all got our bachelors degrees and on our own got our MBA's. That's because our parents taught us right. No one helped them except us kids later on when we graduated and each of us made more than the two of them together. I live in a home that I paid off in 10 years. I could have afforded a larger one but I wanted to put money away for hard times and for retirement. I'm just about there to where I don't have much to worry about any more. I don't mind helping someone who truly needs help because they physically cannot help themselves. But when they've spurned opportunities and have taken the wrong paths in life well then............they can go screw themselves. And I don't want bleeding hearts taking what I've worked for and giving it to someone else. They can give their own money away.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. Wasn't Jerry Springer the "DEMOCRATIC" mayor of Cincinnati??

[VRM]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

VRM, excuse me but bull****. Yes I made over a $100,000 a year. But my Dad loaded 150 lb flour sacks in boxcars for General Mills and my Mom made Folgers coffee cans for the American Can company. We drove an old car and had a 850 sq ft house for the 5 of us. I got my winter coats from Goodwill. That was so my folks could save enough money to send all three of us to college. We all got our bachelors degrees and on our own got our MBA's. That's because our parents taught us right. No one helped them except us kids later on when we graduated and each of us made more than the two of them together. I live in a home that I paid off in 10 years. I could have afforded a larger one but I wanted to put money away for hard times and for retirement. I'm just about there to where I don't have much to worry about any more. I don't mind helping someone who truly needs help because they physically cannot help themselves. But when they've spurned opportunities and have taken the wrong paths in life well then............they can go screw themselves. And I don't want bleeding hearts taking what I've worked for and giving it to someone else. They can give their own money away.

Bernie,
One of the things I also said on other threads is that along with legislative change will need to be a change in the way Americans function. America is the economic powerhouse that it is today because we have had a stong consumer base to buy/sell goods. We are also in the trouble we are in because we forgot to stop spending as we kept up with the Jonses. The upside to that is that with Americans spending every penny they earn that you, me, and a bunch of other people made more money than we would have otherwise if Americans were actually doing the smart thing and saving for a rainy day.

And I think your rant is pretty funny coming from a guy who lives in a state that takes more than it gives. My state has been helping to support your state for years. Your GDP for 2005 was $216B, mine was $326B. And talk about the right choices - MA has 6.5M people, your has 5.8M (as of 2007) yet you managed to have 4% more babies. You also have a significantly higher crime rate, and managed to have only 4000 less state and local government employees than we did (318K vs 322K). And most important to this thread; you have about 17% of your state population without health coverage, we have about 10%.

You GOP types are such states rights advocates, but I see lots of so-called 'liberal' states supporting the so called 'conservative' ones. I've been sick of it for years, and now we can no longer afford it. How about you guys stop whining and get your sh!t together locally before getting involved nationally.

Steve

[Ronbo]

I can tell you one thing about COBRA...

Part of the first "stimulus bill" is a new requirement that as an employer that provides medical insurance I now have to pay 65% of your first 9 months of COBRA should you elect to keep your medical insurance.

If I didn't offer insurance I'm off the hook.

A provision of the new Public offering includes a $1000/yr penalty per employee if they opt for private insurance that I provide. (I pay, not the employee) Basically, they're trying their best to get me to drop insurance so the uninsured number goes up and they can look like heros.

Not to mention collecting their taxes for free, filing I-9's, Paying property tax (on EVERYTHING), matching SS, Unemployment tax (plus pay half your unemployment payments if you actually take it)

All these taxes and no vote for the business, sounds fair. Why do you think there is lobbying? So businesses can bribe politicians legally to keep from getting burned even worse than they are. Washington could give a s**t about my 20 person operation, yet they always promise to help out small business. Yet the tax breaks, and bailouts go to the big guys that don't answer to anyone.

You think the government is on your back? Welcome to my world.

How about this for a fix, for every $10k in taxes you pay you get 1 vote. That's taxation with representation.

[cobra bill]

Foxing the Debate

Some on this site, to include moderators are Foxing the debate, shutting out any and all who disagree with their ideology, rather than research the facts, they choose to push the scare tactics set forth by conservative operatives and lobbyist to shout down any debate, without an intelligent argument, they choose to spew out lies, and when challenged on there lies, they use dirty tactics to shut down any dissenter's or those that disagree with their corporative ideology, get booted off the site for reasons such as this.


vBulletin Message
You have been banned for the following reason:
Grammar
Date the ban will be lifted: 08-14-2009, 12:00 PM



If this offence is written in the forum rules I have not seen it, and if it is, it's used only to help those that wish to stifle the debate, because they have no argument, and they are coward! This practice should be offensive to all on this site, if you are going to have a lounge to allow people to discuss issues, political or not, they should NEVER be treated in this manner! It only proves the fact that you have no argument, so to win the day you resort to this kind of tactic.
I admit English and or spelling was never one of my best subjects, for the most part I am self educated, I was one, that today would have been labeled ADHD, when I was growing up it was just hyperactive! I had a lot to overcome in life because of it, and for the most part, I have done well. I am an avid reader, I am never afraid to research any subject, in life I was lucky to have an ability to fix or build most anything, and it was that natural skill that got me by, I joined the Navy at 17, My IQ test allowed me to advance to E4 right out of boot camp and I was sent to an A school in Memphis to become an ADJ or jet mechanic, and I have been fortunate to work almost my entire currier for the Department of Defense.
If this offense is a forum rule I will respect it and try to not offend anyone with my (BAD GRAMMER) if it is not, stop using cowardly tactics to shut up those that disagree with your narrow and bigoted view of the world.

Bill

[RAZOR]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

Foxing the Debate

Some on this site, to include moderators are Foxing the debate, shutting out any and all who disagree with their ideology, rather than research the facts, they choose to push the scare tactics set forth by conservative operatives and lobbyist to shout down any debate, without an intelligent argument, they choose to spew out lies, and when challenged on there lies, they use dirty tactics to shut down any dissenter's or those that disagree with their corporative ideology, get booted off the site for reasons such as this.


vBulletin Message
You have been banned for the following reason:
Grammar
Date the ban will be lifted: 08-14-2009, 12:00 PM



If this offence is written in the forum rules I have not seen it, and if it is, it's used only to help those that wish to stifle the debate, because they have no argument, and they are coward! This practice should be offensive to all on this site, if you are going to have a lounge to allow people to discuss issues, political or not, they should NEVER be treated in this manner! It only proves the fact that you have no argument, so to win the day you resort to this kind of tactic.
I admit English and or spelling was never one of my best subjects, for the most part I am self educated, I was one, that today would have been labeled ADHD, when I was growing up it was just hyperactive! I had a lot to overcome in life because of it, and for the most part, I have done well. I am an avid reader, I am never afraid to research any subject, in life I was lucky to have an ability to fix or build most anything, and it was that natural skill that got me by, I joined the Navy at 17, My IQ test allowed me to advance to E4 right out of boot camp and I was sent to an A school in Memphis to become an ADJ or jet mechanic, and I have been fortunate to work almost my entire currier for the Department of Defense.
If this offense is a forum rule I will respect it and try to not offend anyone with my (BAD GRAMMER) if it is not, stop using cowardly tactics to shut up those that disagree with your narrow and bigoted view of the world.

Bill

Just use spell check.

[cobra de capell]

I admit English and or spelling was never one of my best subjects, for the most part I am self educated, I was one, that today would have been labeled ADHD

You've been labeled with a lot more then ADHD here. Man, are you the perfect Obama voter or what? Frankly, you need to listen up - when we say don't vote for Obama - you need to follow along or you will end up on ObamaCare. Are you sure that you don't work for ACORN?

[Joe Wicked]

Anyone else want some?

[Excaliber]

Were currently in the deepest recession since the great depression. Peoples 401K plan's have been hit hard or wiped out. Wall Street dam near went under, as with many other major institutions. Banks have been taken over, GM went bankrupt. Unemployment is through the roof.

Uh, HELLO, the economy is in a state of crisis right now, of global proportions (proportations maybe?)! Those who fail to acknowledge that need to get their head out of their azz and come up for air! Anything and everything that can be done should be done to address it. Health reform is only one aspect of a greater plan to recovery.

I see the monkey with the brief case, CDC, but I was expecting an elephant.

[Jamo]

SpaceBill

Trust me, if I wanted to shut you up due to your political asspirations, you would've been gone in the night long ago.

The language thing is annoying as hell, and I'm sorry...but anyone who spends as much time as you on a computer with all of the wonderful tools for correcting errors at one's fingertips, has no excuses. They aren't just spelling errors...you're using the wrong damn words! Giving us the sob story of your life is just so much liberal-style blather and is a wasted effort.

The suspension for a day was meant, in part, in jest, but also as a subtle reminder that you tend to annoy the hell out of folks with your inability to write a paragraph or two without violating basic rules of English, all while you tell folks how damn stupid or brainwashed they are for believing what they do.

That ain't gonna cut it here...for anyone of any political persuasion, and there are a few conservative folks here who could confirm that.

Now...you don't like it? Let me know and I'll end your misery immediately.

It's like that.

[VRM]

Jamo,
He probably is using a 400 year old government PC that does not have context checking. It's like the lyrics for that Hendrix song being 'Excuse me, while I kiss this guy'.

Oh wait - that is another debate.

Seriously C-B, read what you write before you hit send. Use the preview button and give it a check before you send it. The practise will do you good. It really is annoying and does nothing positive for your cause.


Steve

[Jamo]

...and for all you poor white folks out there that can't stand the black man in the Whitehouse, a women as secretary of state and god forbid a Hispanic on the supreme court.

And now you're accusing folks of being racists and biased simply because they disagree with you?

That's why so many threads you are involved in become problematic...you initiate justifiably angered responses.

One more remark, and it won't just be a day off.

You sought attention...you've got it.