Obamacare Meltdown

[Ronbo]

Even Fido's had enough of him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XivhwO_zWWg

[alkire248]

Margaret Thatcher quote: "The trouble with socialsim is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

[BeanCounter]

Steve,

First of all the problems that you cite are found predominately in the St Louis and Kansas City metropolitan areas which are predominantly Democratic. The liberal Democrats caused the problem and are the ones that are shipping the money here. How about you let us send you all those problems and their excess babies and you can keep your friggin money. The 4% more babies we have are probably due to the greater number of gay marriages you have where they flat can't have kids. Just like most liberals you cause the problem and then you ***** about it. Believe you me out here in the hinterlands we don't get any of that Commie Massachusetts money and we don't want it. We take care of ourselves. Secondly call Claire McCaskill and tell her she's a conservative.

Ronbo, you're mistaken that you are paying 65% of their first 9 months Cobra. Credits for that 65% are being given to you through your payroll taxes that you pay in. The government is footing the bill on that. I know since my daughter is on COBRA and I set up all of the reporting for Blue Cross here in Kansas City.

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Ronbo, you're mistaken that you are paying 65% of their first 9 months Cobra. Credits for that 65% are being given to you through your payroll taxes that you pay in. The government is footing the bill on that. I know since my daughter is on COBRA and I set up all of the reporting for Blue Cross here in Kansas City.

You are correct, I'm supposed to get the money back. But it's just more headache and expense I have to bear for supplying medical insurance to my employees. Not to mention the Insurance co. also has to deal with it to some extent which adds to the cost.

I have no doubt all this stuff over the last 20+ years (by both parties) has been leading to this end. Congress robbing SS blind (should rename it Retirement Poverty) wasn't enough now they need to steal your medical $$. Guess when they saw all the income going into 401k's they figured they left us with too much money.

Of course I haven't touched on the major screwing from workman's comp. it's so bad most insurance companies won't even write it.

[Excaliber]

So the bottom line is the guy with gall stones died because he was denied treatment. An excellent example of why we need health reform. It's quite a leap to pinpoint WHAT the dead fellows "intention" was though.

Here's the bottom line:
He's gonna die if he's denied insurance, he was and he did. We need to fix that problem! Sounds to me like Obama got the story right, maybe Dan40 is the liar here? Just using the same terminology you used Dan, no offense intended.

I'm not any more comfortable calling someone a liar than I am hearing someone call our POTUS a liar. Respect goes both ways.
Perhaps the term "misrepresentation", in your opinion, would be more suitable?

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I'm not any more comfortable calling someone a liar than I am hearing someone call our POTUS a liar. Respect goes both ways.
Perhaps the term "misrepresentation", in your opinion, would be more suitable?

Excellent point. Many of us didn't like it when folks were derogatory about Bush.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Excellent point. Many of us didn't like it when folks were derogatory about Bush.

President Obama is lying to give people healt care !!!

[Ronbo]

No, Obama is lying to get control of health care. (money)

Since there haven't been any new attacks on our soil, I'd say at least a majority of the right people are dying.

These people have hated us for decades, so there's no room for being pussies about their disposition. The ex-drunk from Texas responded better than the conman from Arkansas who was busy playing "hide the cigar" with fat chicks.

Obama's biggest problem is he's no where near the conman the hillbilly was.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

No, Obama is lying to get control of health care. (money)

Since there haven't been any new attacks on our soil, I'd say at least a majority of the right people are dying.

These people have hated us for decades, so there's no room for being pussies about their disposition. The ex-drunk from Texas responded better than the conman from Arkansas who was busy playing "hide the cigar" with fat chicks.

Obama's biggest problem is he's no where near the conman the hillbilly was.

High praise indeed !!!

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Obama's biggest problem is he's no where near the conman the hillbilly was.

I think it may even go deeper than that.

I met Clinton. He seemed like a very bright guy who could grasp difficult concepts, but that also made him good at being able to use things to his advantage. I think he could have been a better leader if he had paid attention in ethics classes.

Bush seemed to have problems (or was too lazy) getting the concepts, but I think he knew this and that's what his people were for. I consider his father, though, to be one of the best statesmen we have ever had.

McCain seemed too high strung and not all that sure of the details, and that seemed quite a bit different from the guy who ran back in 2000.

Obama is a great speaker, and he has some grand aspirations. He seems to have convinced himself that he knows all the details, and is thus able to convince others. He seems to be reasonably bright, and hopefully he is learning some fast lessons. Time will tell.

Hillary cracks me up - she will go to her grave convinced that she is a better man than Bill.

Steve

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

So the bottom line is the guy with gall stones died because he was denied treatment. An excellent example of why we need health reform. It's quite a leap to pinpoint WHAT the dead fellows "intention" was though.

1.He was not denied treatment. He could have had the treatment but HE would have had to pay for it as he LIED on his insurance application. That DOES constitute FRAUD.
2. His "intentions" aside, he completed a FALSE application. Therefore HE negated his policy.

Here's the bottom line:
He's gonna die if he's denied insurance, he was and he did. We need to fix that problem! Sounds to me like Obama got the story right, maybe Dan40 is the liar here? Just using the same terminology you used Dan, no offense intended.

The issue, once again, is not treatment, this issue is who gets the bill for the treatment. Had the patient NOT filled out a fraudulent application, he would have had coverage.. He screwed himself up. And obummer, the ultimate lying scumbag, knows the insurance law and knows they were 100% justified in canceling the policy.
Typical liberal lying twists, you now lie and accuse me of lying and all offense is 100% intended.

Your illustrious leader just got caught lying through his oversize teeth and you can't handle the FACT that he INTENTIONALLY LIED.

I'm not any more comfortable calling someone a liar than I am hearing someone call our POTUS a liar. Respect goes both ways.
Perhaps the term "misrepresentation", in your opinion, would be more suitable?

"misrepresentation" is the wussy PC way to say, lying.

mis·rep·re·sent (ms-rpr-znt)
tr.v. mis·rep·re·sent·ed, mis·rep·re·sent·ing, mis·rep·re·sents
1. To give an incorrect or misleading representation of.
2. To serve incorrectly or dishonestly as an official representative of.

a false statement
snow job- a long and elaborate misrepresentation

dissembling- pretending with intention to deceive

lying- the deliberate act of deviating from the truth



So you can feel free to call obummer a misrepresenter, or a snow job artist, or a dissembler, or a liar. And liar is the simplest word to use. The other words mean the same.
He is a liar, has been a liar, and will be a liar until we boot his lying ass out of office. And he will lie after that too. It IS what he does.

[Anthony]

If many of you think obama's healthcare is for the people and not for the benefit of corporate america, you're wrong. How do you think he got the pham companies on board? By including a provision so they will still be able to make money. I'm sure there are other corporate friendly provisions as well.

Rregarding pre-existing condition issues, the only time this comes into play is when someone goes without insurance for greater than 60 days, and then the insurance company can use this "clause". And in my experience, from what I've seen, is that the waiting time period until the pre-existing condition will be covered is 1 year. If you don't have a 60 day or greater period of time without insurance, then the insurance company cannot use the pre-existing condition clause. The reason why there is this provision, is that you can't have a person go without insurance for years, until he needs an operation, and then sign up for insurance to get the operation covered, having the insurance company pay alot more than the premium the person was paying, and then the person cancels his insurance right after the expensive treatment. This law protects the insurance company from being scammed.

However, if you change insurance companies, with no time period of "no insurance", or actually less than 60 days of uncovered period, then the insurance company cannot consider any conditons pre-existing. If you lose your insurance from being layed off, etc., the smart thing to do would be to get cheap high deductable insurance, not cobra unless you have the money or a serious (expensive) illness, to bridge the time period until you get another job that has/includes/provides better insurance, at which time you could cancel the "cheaper" insurance for the better policy, even if you have to take a home equity loan to pay for the "cheaper" insurance.

The point is, to avoid the "pre-existing" clause issue, you never want to go for any time period without health insurance, no matter how good or bad that insurance is. No one tells you that, your employer, insurance companies, etc. I imagine that it's financially beneficial for an insurance company to have somebody with pre-existing conditions, yet paying tha same premium.

As far as denying care, medicare/medicaid already have many limitations already, VA hospitals deny ready access care, and BWC ( that's worker's comp - government run health insurace) is generally a nightmare for anybody that requires ongoing treatments, with BWC denying care all the time, delaying treatments for months/years at a time, or forever. You really think the government can get it right?

Let me see, the government intervened in the financial industry, influencing Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae on loaning money, playing with the interest rate (causing the artifical inflation of housing prices) , and the lack of holding people responsible when the loans defaulted (homeowners, mortgage brokers, banks, mortgage insurance companies) leading to the recent financial meltdown. You really think a group of 5 lawyers and one banker can come up with a healthcare reform bill that will solve our healthcare problems?

Our healthcare is getting more expensive, because there are more and more people getting older and sicker, requiring more care. The care itself is not getting more expensive, infact Medicare and Medicaid are actually paying less money for specific services to hospitals and doctor's than 5 years ago. Medicare and Medicaid costs are going up because there are more sick people, enrollment keeps going up. It's going to cost us more money no matter what. That's the bullet we'll have to bite no matter what.

[cobra de capell]

Let's break down the 46 million 'uninsured'....

This group of nearly 46 million breaks down into five categories.

The first, consisting of about 6.5 million, actually is insured. They are enrolled in Medicaid or S-CHIP but didn't tell the census taker. This is called the "Medicaid undercount."

The second group, about 4.5 million, consists of people who are eligible for Medicaid or S-CHIP but have not enrolled. If they need care, the hospital or clinic generally enrolls them. In other words, they do not (as Obama claims) go bankrupt or without treatment. In any case, it would be ridiculous to overhaul our healthcare system to provide insurance to people who are already eligible for government assistance but have failed to avail themselves of it.

The third group, about 9.5 million, is comprised of non-citizens. People will disagree about what portion of this group should receive government subsidized health insurance. In my view, none should.

And keep in mind that being uninsured is not the same as having to pay (or pay much) for treatment. I've heard illegal immigrants say that they find ways to receive free or inexpensive treatment for themselves and their children.

The fourth group, another 10 million, earns an income more than three times the poverty line. As such, they can afford to buy medical insurance. Taxpayers should not be required to buy it for them.

This leaves about 15.5 million (one-third of Obama's 46 million) who actually are uninsured, cannot become insured simply by enrolling in a free program, are U.S. citizens, and cannot easily afford to purchase insurance. About 5 million members of this cohort are childless adults.

It is understandable that many Americans would like to see the government do something for this group, or at least those members who are not young, childless, healthy adults with decent starter salaries who simply think it makes economic sense to assume the small risk that they will incur large medical expenses. But it is also understandable that many Americans favor targeting this group through incremental measures to assist them in purchasing insurance, rather than through a radical overhaul of our healthcare system at a massive cost.

Obama knows he needs a big number of "uninsured" to even get in the vicinity of selling what he has in mind to a skeptical public. But the big number he has selected would not get him in the vicinity if the public better understood who it consists of.

“God helps those who help themselves.” Liberals help the ones who refuse to take responsibility for their own lives.

[cobra de capell]

lying- the deliberate act of deviating from the truth

Spinning the truth is also lying, but it's not necessarily considered lying.

Obama, in my view, is really not spinning, he's lying big time and over and over again.

America screwed up.

[computerworks]

Plagiarism - the use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author

...Let's break down the 46 million 'uninsured'....

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/08/024280.php

Just post the link when you feel compelled to share other's original thoughts, OK?

Thanks

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by computerworks

Plagiarism - the use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author



http://powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/08/024280.php

Just post the link when you feel compelled to share other's original thoughts, OK?

Thanks

Is there something wrong with plagiarism, when it involves stats, on the web - I see nothing in the Club rules that forbids plagiarism - also, there has not been an original thought posted here for the past 10+ years - so, aren't all posts plagiarism to one degree or another?

Please point out the Club rule against stats plagiarism.

Also, all the jokes I post would be considered plagiarism - so, why is it that you allow joke threads with no attribution to whoever created the joke? And why is it that you have the time to search the web to find out if a post is considered plagiarism in your view? No life?

By the way, I've not seen you post an original thought since 2001. Why is that?

Once again, Please Get Off My Back.

[Doug I]

Thanks for that Ron - CdC was about to be, IMO, put straight about a few things he said. Now that I know it was a cut-n-paste I needn't be bothered.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Doug I

Thanks for that Ron - CdC was about to be, IMO, put straight about a few things he said. Now that I know it was a cut-n-paste I needn't be bothered.

And next time, don't bother also - talk to the hand after hitting the ignore button.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

And next time, don't bother also - talk to the hand after hitting the ignore button.

I checked ...now, that was an original thought.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by computerworks

I checked ...now, that was an original thought.

See, even you can come up with a sense of humor. But, keep your day job.