Obama Speaks, Pelosi Winces - Page 3

bdeutsch · #41 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 10:02 AM

Unquestionably, President Obama is an accomplished orator and it was hard on the surface to fundamentally argue with things he said or championed yesterday evening.

Having said this though, when you start peeling back some of the layers of the various topics last night and in particular how all of this would be paid for, the words started ringing a bit hollow.

Unless the government somehow is able to freeze rates, any increased costs incurred by insurers, will simply be passed on. How does that not equate to same/less care for equal money at either a corporate or individual level? One does not have to be an economist to understand any of this.

bomelia · #42 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 10:02 AM

CDC... nice. So true. Actually 5 words were true. "You Lie" from Joe Wilson, and "My fellow Americans" from Obama. From there on, it was all lies lies lies.

Mike

cobra de capell · #43 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 10:05 AM

By the way, this is the look that Pelosi gave Wilson last night....

The libs stock in trade is emotionalism.. manufactured outrage, created crisis, dubious disasters...

"The whole aim of practical [liberal] politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

H. L. Mencken

cobra de capell · #44 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 10:34 AM

Wow, triple death glare.

Excaliber · #45 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 11:00 AM

Joe Wilson's response was directly aimed at illegal aliens gaining health insurance coverage.

What part of the current bill says that will happen? Many of you support calling the President a liar on this issue, so, your proof is???

SPF2245 · #46 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 11:14 AM

Excaliber, your correct in the bills wording. However, it doesn't say how this will be enforced. For example, the bill has no provisions for determining who an "illegal" is. The bill doesn't stop illegals from obtaining care at hospitals (like they currently are doing), the bill does nothing to help hospitals recoop losses associated with providing that care (so, much like today...nothing changes). So in the end, it is a lie. Illegals will get care, they won't pay and neither will the Gov't. And with that, we will continue to see fees increase for those who do pay for that coverage granted to illegals.

Excaliber · #47 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 11:22 AM

Anybody who has a catastrophic injury and ends up in the emergency room, for example, will receive immediate care. No bill is going to change that fundamental policy. That is vastly different than TWISTING this bill to suggest that illegal aliens would be covered. It's similiar to saying that Obama will have "death squads", which just simply is not factually accurate. It is precisely this kind of irresponsible BS that prevents a reasonable approach to reform consideration.

Who is an illegal? Puhlease, your kidding me right?

cobra de capell · #48 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 11:33 AM

Here's the problem....

On July 30 of this year, a House committee voted against a Republican amendment offered by Rep. Nathan Deal that would have required health care providers to use the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program to prevent illegal aliens from receiving government health care services. All Republicans and five Democrats voted for it, but 29 Democrats voted against it, killing the amendment.

On the same day, the committee voted 30-29 against an amendment offered by Republican Joe Pitts explicitly stating that government health care would not cover abortions. Zealous abortion supporter Henry Waxman — a walking, breathing argument for abortion if ever there was one — originally voted in favor of the Pitts amendment because that allowed him, in a sleazy parliamentary trick, to bring the amendment up for reconsideration later. Which he did — as soon as he had enough Democrats in the hearing room to safely reject it.

If any liberal sincerely believes that national health care will not cover illegals and abortion, how do they explain the Democrats frantically opposing amendments that would make this explicit? - Ann Coulter

Therefore, the illegals issue can be eliminated by simply adding SAVE - why on earth not? The only reason I can think of is that Obama wants to cover illegals through the back door of this bill.

SPF2245 · #49 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 12:00 PM

What do you think illegals DO now when they're sick? They go to the ER, get treatment and move on. This won't end, they will be allowed to get service for their illness and again, We The People will pay for it. This bill doesn't stop anything from changing regarding illegals recieving medical coverage at the cost of tax payers. I'm not twisting this fact, just pointing out it is simply a "feel good" for public support. So what if the bill doesn't cover illegals, their still getting care, provided by the tax payers and this bill is written to ignore that fact.

Finally, I just spent some time listening to the speech again. I do like the provision for a Gov't non-profit insurance option (which will be cheaper then private insurance). Let's see, who here honestly thinks any insurance company can honestly compete with that when they are accountable to stock holders? The end result of this bill (in time) will be a single-national run insurance controlled by the Gov't. Now, there might be some private insurance for those with the cash, but it won't be affordable for the masses. He uses the comparison of Private vs Public colleges...yeah, great model to look at. My kids would be taking student loans out for decades to pay for private schools, end result, they go to a public school and pay for one decade.

Excaliber · #50 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 12:44 PM

Illegal and need a liver translpant or extensive chemo? Aint gonna happen, period, now or in the future. To suggest that illegals would some how be covered under a Government health care plan, as did Joe Wilson did by calling Obama a liar, is twisting the truth like a pretezel.

To STOP illegals or ANY uninsured person from receiving emergency care what would your propose?

cobra de capell · #51 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Illegal and need a liver translpant or extensive chemo? Aint gonna happen, period, now or in the future. To suggest that illegals would some how be covered under a Government health care plan, as did Joe Wilson did by calling Obama a liar, is twisting the truth like a pretezel.

To STOP illegals or ANY uninsured person from receiving emergency care what would your propose?

Illegals - ship them back to their country prior to care being needed. Uninsured AMERICANS - continue emergency scenario.

Excaliber · #52 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 12:59 PM

Well it's an entertaining thought but not a practical solution to emergency care for illegals. I think it will be all but impossible to stop it no matter what kind of laws or safegaurds are established. We could limit it though, as in "stabilize", then send home? That could result in an international event with grave consequences. Suppose your an American over seas, you need immediate care, no pass port, no ID, then what?

bomelia · #53 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber;98****

Well it's an entertaining thought but not a practical solution to emergency care for illegals. I think it will be all but impossible to stop it no matter what kind of laws or safegaurds are established. We could limit it though, as in "stabilize", then send home? That could result in an international event with grave consequences. Suppose your an American over seas, you need immediate care, no pass port, no ID, then what?

Patch the illegal up and then deport him/her and their family. Great way to find them, huh?

The reality is, democrats know that one day this HUGE population of illegal aliens will get to vote. And they gonna vote for democrats.

Hey, did Cobra space Bill explode? Where did he go?

map · #54 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 01:12 PM

As soon as Mein Führer started into his health care masturbation the republican should have got up and left!

I think the republican are giving the Dems all the rope they want to hang themselves politically...

Pelosi **** that *****..

Excaliber · #55 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 01:24 PM

Exactly the same thing could be said for the Repubs, Demo's gave them plenty of rope and sure enough, they hung themselves!

Quote:

Mein Führer started into his health care masturbation

...I rest my case!

mdmull · #56 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 02:29 PM

Excal seems to be the energizer bunny of lib think-lib speak, same thing over & over & over & over & over. For the past 75 years, the progressives have been chipping away at the parts of our country - limited governmant & self determination - that made us the envy of the world. The chips are coming faster and bigger these days.
For Chri**"s sake today the House passed permanent funding of Chesapeake bay area trails. Where do I find that in even the LIVING Constitution?

Excaliber · #57 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 02:51 PM

I got a chuckle out of this quote from Newsweek columinist John Barry, in defense of Joe Wilson's comment:

Quote:

So why was dissent, politely phrased, out of order?

Politely phrased? WHAT? Did this guy even see the speech?

Don · #58 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 03:05 PM

Not my original thought, but mentioned. The next program after health care will be amnesty for the illegals as part of immigration reform , then they can get the health care.

cobra de capell · #59 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber;98****

Well it's an entertaining thought but not a practical solution to emergency care for illegals. I think it will be all but impossible to stop it no matter what kind of laws or safegaurds are established. We could limit it though, as in "stabilize", then send home? That could result in an international event with grave consequences. Suppose your an American over seas, you need immediate care, no pass port, no ID, then what?

As stated above, patch them up and ship them out. Also, change the law so that anchor babies - babies born to illegals are not automatically US citizens - I suspect that that would cut down on a lot of expense and a primary reason for illegals to end up here.

As for an America overseas with no passport, ID - do whatever you want with them, they are to stupid to be shipped back here - unless they have a good explanation for their circumstances.

Also, while we are at it - let's sell Hawaii to China for about $9 Trillion, along with all the liberals living there (that part is free) - that way we can eliminate our debt and unload a lot of people that seem to need a lot of government control in their lives. Also, let's do it on a day that Obama is in Hawaii!

Dan40 · #60 (**permalink**) 09-10-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I got a chuckle out of this quote from Newsweek columinist John Barry, in defense of Joe Wilson's comment:

Quote:
So why was dissent, politely phrased, out of order?

Politely phrased? WHAT? Did this guy even see the speech?

He was polite, he said, "You Lie!"

He did not say, "You lie you rotten cork soaker!" That would have been accurate too, but impolite.