Speaking of Illegals........

[Jamo]

Ernie...by "neighborhood" I meant enforcement by ICE by going directly into neighborhoods to go after folks they know are illegal because of past criminal histories or to follow up on information provided by employers when the folks leave after they have been notified of a mis-match or a DOL audit. Obama's DHS folks pulled back on that because of protests from MAPPA and other organizations...including the Mexican Consulates.

Again...the states and local governments do not enforce federal immigration laws.

We had shortages in California ag during the housing boom over the past half a decade because farmworkers were moving into the construction field. Despite the downturn in construction over the last year, they have generally not returned to agriculture.

[Excaliber]

I think I see what you mean, it's a political hot potato because of various interest groups protesting enforcement. As their numbers grow (Latino/Mexican) that's only going to compound the problem.

That kind of pressure would be even more pronounced at the local level to keep ICE from getting the information in the first place.

[*13*]

Thanks for the Post Jamo. I will back up the fact that Construction workers were standing in line to work during the boom & the 8 yrs prior. I worked in underground construction. That means guys were willing to move a shovel all day, work on a sewer line or crawl 200' of 24" Drain Pipe to seal & check for cracks. Of course the reason they are willing to do this comes down to $$$. Construction pays well. Yes, this leads into the "AG Needs to pay more" department. And while that is true I know the other side is that they just CAN'T. I spent some time with a retired Milk Farmer & his wife this summer in Upstate, NY. If the same is there as in the the rest of the industry it's a pretty tough market to survive. They said the price they were getting per Gallon of Milk is the same as it was 20 years ago. We also toured Old MacDonalds farm outside of Watertown. That was interesting. Interesting to see the process. All of their milk is made into cheese, they said. Reason being that the Cheese factory is only a few miles down the road & they have to transport it. Comes down to cost of doing business.

[Excaliber]

This is what I was talking about as it concerns more local control.

"The Homeland Security Department wants Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Ariz., to stop arresting illegal immigrants whose only crime was crossing the U.S.-Mexico border without documents."

I'm not a fan of the "toughest Sheriff" in the land but it leaves me baffled why he and other local departments are hindered when they are just "TCB".

I THINK the Feds have to pay the state(s) to house these illegals. If every Sheriff in the land started doing this the jails would fill up, the costs would go through the roof, the backlog in the courts would take 10 years, it would be a mess. MAYBE that's why the Feds are trying to discourage it?

[Jamo]

Ernie...they told him to stop because he was arresting them for federal crimes. He also screwed up several federal coyote investigations in doing so.

Yes, the federal government is supposed to reimburse states for costs in jailing illegals who are arrested by federal agents but detained by state authorities due to lack of federal detention space...they are several years behind in making the reimbursements.

[Excaliber]

Ah, like the local cops busting a user that the Feds were following to find the dealer.

...what a mess.

[Jamo]

Assactly. Mexican drug cartels use coyotes/illegals to carry drugs into the US. The headline-grabbing sheriff, of course, is only concerned with whether they spell his name right.

[Joe Wicked]

Jamo,
I too understand the Ag stuff as I grew up on farms in Nebraska. My family was all small farms and did not hire out during harvest season. Farms were just big enough to support a family. The larger farms though would contract out to firms that came through at harvest season. Small towns would grow expedentially with Spanish speaking "Citizens" for about a month then go back to normal. Now it is smaller crews of mostly white guys that are charging almost double to do the same work. More and more are hiring local teenagers to help in harvesting. I know it is a lot different than the Cali farms, but I still feel that American would do the jobs, IF you get rid of the easy handout. That is the key. We have become lazy and don't want to actually work. Americans would start working harder labor if it was that or nothing. In that regard, I really like Excaliber's idea of, you take whatever is offered (assuming you are physically capable) and your assistance only covers the difference in what you were making. If you don't take it, or get fired (not laid off) you get nothing until you find another job.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Joe Wicked

Jamo,
I too understand the Ag stuff as I grew up on farms in Nebraska. My family was all small farms and did not hire out during harvest season. Farms were just big enough to support a family. The larger farms though would contract out to firms that came through at harvest season. Small towns would grow expedentially with Spanish speaking "Citizens" for about a month then go back to normal. Now it is smaller crews of mostly white guys that are charging almost double to do the same work. More and more are hiring local teenagers to help in harvesting. I know it is a lot different than the Cali farms, but I still feel that American would do the jobs, IF you get rid of the easy handout. That is the key. We have become lazy and don't want to actually work. Americans would start working harder labor if it was that or nothing. In that regard, I really like Excaliber's idea of, you take whatever is offered (assuming you are physically capable) and your assistance only covers the difference in what you were making. If you don't take it, or get fired (not laid off) you get nothing until you find another job.

Eh...that was in my post, but I'm sure Ernie was just about to suggest it.

[Excaliber]

Yup, that was a great idea Jamo. That fundamentally should work across the Nation. Like unemployment, you gotta look for work. Turn down any work and you loose the money.

HOWEVER, unemployment rarely checks and now with so many people drawing they are over whelmed.

[Scott S]

Jamo really did a great job with his post, but I want to lay out the problem with a employers perspective.

A farmer friend of mine hires migrant workers to do various crops, he claims every one of his employees are verified legit using all the resources available yet he is constantly attacked for hiring "illegals".

The drive-by public sees little brown workers in his fields and seem to automatically assume they are here without papers, how would you prove to the racists the employees are legit?

Will it take a large billboard with the names, birth dates, and SSI #'s posted so everyone could check? How would you like for your employer to release your personal information to the public to prove you are not undocumented?

Scott S

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Eh...that was in my post, but I'm sure Ernie was just about to suggest it.

OK I am an idiot. I thought I read where Ernie posted that. Mark that up as my dumber than a box of hammers moment for the day.

[Jamo]

Hehehe...I mean really? You thought ERNIE of all people would've suggested that?

Just teasing ya, island boy.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Scott S

Jamo really did a great job with his post, but I want to lay out the problem with a employers perspective.

A farmer friend of mine hires migrant workers to do various crops, he claims every one of his employees are verified legit using all the resources available yet he is constantly attacked for hiring "illegals".

The drive-by public sees little brown workers in his fields and seem to automatically assume they are here without papers, how would you prove to the racists the employees are legit?

Will it take a large billboard with the names, birth dates, and SSI #'s posted so everyone could check? How would you like for your employer to release your personal information to the public to prove you are not undocumented?

Scott S

Thanks...you nailed it.

[BeanCounter]

My Dad told me about working around Salinas in his late teens. He said it was back breaking labor but was better than chopping cotton back in Oklahoma and Arkansas. On that subject he took me the summer before my junior year and put me in the field. I lasted maybe a half hour (of which 29 minutes was pissing and moaning). Junior year grades improved significantly and by senior year I was president of the senior class. Nothing like bloody hands to convince you the worth of a good education.

[Excaliber]

Sheesshhh, been so busy today I've hardly had time to check my e-mail...

Well making folks work for welfare, foodstamps or what eva has all always been a good idea. When I was in high school I picked my share of green beans, lit my share of smudge pots, I know how it works in the real world!

Blew out the starter drive on the Cobra doing some shopping today, almost had to call AAA. I got a couple of guys to give me push and "bump started" it in second. Whew, that was close.

[RAZOR]

Talk about farm work. I worked on a farm one summer when I was 16. It was a very large Blueberry farm in N J. Their were 40 lovely Italian teenage girls working in the packing house. Pay I didn't need any stinkin pay. It was the summer of amour. Plus I made enough money to help me buy my first car, a GTO.
Thats my suggestion put 40 Italian beauties in the mix and you don't care if you get paid or not.Import them from Italy and its even better and no one care if their legal or not.

[Jamo]

Hehehe...yup, there are some benefits.

[Jamo]

Ernie...smudge pots? So much for air quality, heh?

We lit pots (pre-return tubes) and piles of tires to keep tomatoes alive, and wind machines with big rotary motors. Plastic on the lampshades and over the carpet at home.

[Excaliber]

...man that was a long time ago...

Yup, smudge pots, do they STILL do that these days?