FFR or ERA??!!

[Bpags11]

Hey guys:
I have been researching kit manufacturers for a few weeks now, and have narrowed my choices down to Factory Five, or ERA. To keep it simple, has anyone dealt with, or purchased a car from either company, and would be willing to provide some feedback? Even if you would like to pass along some general thoughts, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys
-Brian

[Excaliber]

Ha ha,,,, forgive me for chuckling. Choosing an ERA or an FFR is like choosing between a VW and a Cadillac. They really are TWO different vehicles all together!

ERA is just simply a "Cadillac" compared to the FFR. BOTH cars are good, just serve different purposes in life.

An ERA virtually DEMANDS a 427 FE, a use 302 will be fine in the FFR. The ERA, done right, will cost WAY more than the FFR.

If you drive both, you'll see why the ERA is far superior to the "average" FFR. Which means that some"exceptionally well built" FFR's are out there. Even a "mediocre" ERA is still an "exceptional" Cobra replica.

[luke-44]

Hi Brian and welcome to the madness.

I also went through the exact same evaluation you are currently involved with. I got hooked with this slice of automobile passion through the FFR video, and started my research from there.

FFR make a nice kit that provides a lot of latitude as to how to complete the build - small block motors are not uncommon in the big block body. Be aware that only a small percentage of FFR's are completed with the 100% donor-car route. Some peole feel the FFR misses the lines of the original car - it is called the "perky butt" line - due to well...its perky butt.

The ERA will cost you more $$ - period. However, the upside is unquestionned authenticity in the areas you can see, and an exceptional chassis/handling - and when you think about it - this is the soul of the car. The ERA will show much higher resale value down the road.

As for the 427, well Ernie, I believe the 428 is a much better street motor, but the key point being they are both big block FE motors and everyone is in agreement oin this for an ERA - unless you look at the FIA small block model by ERA.

The best advice - study the websites in detail and visit both factories - they both offer a good product, but, like Ernie said, are serving 2 different parts of the market.

If you are only a few weeks into your evaluation, you have a ways to go - there are many other alternates as well - I was really partial to Unique - a good middle position between the ERA and FFR. And then there is....oh well, take your time....remember - enjoyment is 9/10's anticipation....

Good luck,

[ack fia]

I agree that the ERA cars are a world apart from the FFR. I've talked to a couple of FFR guys who faced the same $$ choice and went with FFR. The issue is that they spent as much on the FFR to get it the way they wanted as they would have on an ERA and ended up with less of a car (my opinion).

[ack fia]

I agree that the ERA cars are a world apart from the FFR. I've talked to a couple of FFR guys who faced the same $$ choice and went with FFR. The issue is that they spent as much on the FFR to get it the way they wanted as they would have on an ERA and ended up with less of a car (my opinion).

[TampaFla]

If you have the chance look at the two parked side-by-side from the rear. That view says a lot about the difference. While 427s are nice, ERA also makes a great reproduction of the original car (289). ERA even offers a side view comparison of the two completely different body styles (the original car design compared to the modified design required to fit the 427s needs) on their web site.

And finally, look at Cobra Country for ads for the resale values of both. The real cost is the difference between what you pay and what you can sell it for someday down the road.

[DonC]

Brian:
I second Excalibur's response. You will probably receive any number of opinions about both but Slick has probably stated is most succinctly.
Bruce's comment about the engine is right on as well. The ERA really should have one of the big blocks in it although the small block will work.
Bottom line unfortunately is money and how much of it you have to work with. Once you have fixed a budget the rest should fall into place.
Talk to as many people as you can that own both and research the forums and web sites. I spend the better part of a year in making my final decision and that was after about 5 years of general interest and about 20 of "thinking about it".
Am I biased towards ERA, YOU BETCHA but then again I own one. Still working on getting my head around the fact that it's MINE.
DonC

[daltondavid]

Get out there and Look at Both Cars. Sit in them both. and if at all possible, Drive them. in my long research which was greatly aided by the Folks on this site, I went for a High end Car that suited my desires. If you are on a limited budget of $30,000 and under and not looking to be spinning wrences every other day, Get a FFR that has a Stock Ford Powerplant. Quick and nimble and might just be enough to scratch your itch. If you want to know what it was really like in 1965, Jump into the time machine and Get an ERA, or CSX! You will pay Twice what the FFR costs, but again, it is all in what it takes to fulfill your dream.

[REDSC400]

Hi Brian:

Well, you have chosen two marques that oddly, are at different ends of the cost/value spectrum....

Usually folks that have ERA as a finalist also have SuperFormance in the mix.

I would very STRONGLY suggest you get a copy of the book written by Curt Scott, called _The Complete Guide to Cobra Replicas 4th edition_ you can find this on www.cobracountry.com

Curt lists 10 steps (based upon your criteria and level of importance) that any prospective Cobra Replica buyer should go thru to help understand how to arrive at a good kit choice. This book also lists the all of the "current" kit makers and the pros and cons of each of their product offerings. Were I you, I would NOT proceed any further until you understand his perspectives on the process. BTW, Scott lists the category of price as the last of the ten categories.

I was in your shoes about 2 years ago, and very luckily I ran across a nice "used" ERA for sale here in Connecticut which I purchased. I am not sorry at all for going that route. There are some excellent cars out there from both makes you mentioned that are for sale.

From what I saw (when in the market) however, the build quality on FFRs varies quite widely from poor at the low end to wonderful at the high end with prices commensurate with the build quality. In the ERA world, the build quality was always at the high end and beyond that. However, there are very much fewer used ERAs on the market at any given time as there are less than 700 427s and less than 120 289s ERAs in existance.

There is a wonderful ERA for sale out of Texas which is in a classic roadster configuration (sans side exhasut and roll bar) which is priced very very right. You can find that post here on Club Cobra.

Good Luck and if you wish to come on down and see ERA375 and jawbone about your options further, I can arrange for you to meet me and another owner friend of mine who is an FFR owner.
You should email me.

Cheers

[klayfish]

Amazingly enough, you're going to find that ERA owners will jump on here and say you need to go with the ERA. FFR owners will give you tons of reasons to go with the FFR. What are the odds?

I have an FFR and love it, but here's my advice.

What's important to you? Originality? Performance? Value? Is money no object?

Personally, I wanted a car I could go out and have a good time with. It wasn't going to be an "original" Cobra, so I didn't care if it looked exactly correct. I wanted it close, but didn't need to be perfect. Outside of the fairly small Cobra community, 99% of people can't tell the difference between my FFR and most other replicas. Are some of the other kits the "Cadillac" of Cobras? Maybe. Are they "better" than the FFR, or even the ERA? Maybe. That's debatable. Lots will say the FFR is just as good, or better than, other kits. But is an ERA, or other kit worth an extra $10,000 over an FFR? $20,000? Not for me, it wasn't (probably couldn't have afforded it anyway). But some will pay an incredible amount of money just for a certain look, or to get that CSX number for their car. It's all personal preference.

I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other. I think if you look carefully, you'll be happy either way you go. But the questions I raised are ones you need to answer for yourself.

Steve

[Excaliber]

$20K more for an ERA over an FFR sounds logical. You might be able to do it for only $10K more, but it will tough.

428 would save a lot of dollars over a 427. I'm currently rebuilding my hand grenade,,, uh,,, I mean 427.

[Adrian472]

Hi
I just been through all this step by step and logically thinking, i would surguest if you can afford to go with a ERA then spend a little more time and money and get a Kirkham. You wont regret it!
Adrian

[TampaFla]

Note: You can not put a big block in an ERA 289FIA w/o cutting off your feet first (or sticking them out the window which makes stopping a little difficult). The 289 was a car into which an engine was installed; the 427 was an engine onto which a car was installed.

[RACER X #99]

This one is too easy,
If you want to spend most of your time road racing go for the FFR, If show and cruising is your thing go for the ERA.

You will find more FFR Cobras thrashing the racetracks and most ERA owners are found cruising or at car shows.

[rdorman]

Good generalization.

Both good companies. Both know for good service. ERA is generally more for the 'purist' crowd that want a more 'accurate' replica and FFR is generally more for the 'I want a Cobra my way' type crowd. Of course budget does come to mind since the average finished ERA is a fair bit more than the average FFR. Points about them being on each end of the scale are close to being pretty much on. ERA has been around longer and their products are more 'evolutionairy', FFR is more like the newer kids on the block and their products tend to be more 'revolutionairy'. Like a 911 and a Crossfire perhaps. These are of course generalizations and their will be cars that break them.

Rick

[Ant]

Man I would have loved your choices way down here in NZ when I first started my current build. I guess one could have been shipped to here, at great $$$$$$, but then I would not appreciate the car if someone else had built it!

ERA and FFR to my way of thinking are both very good in different ways, as mentioned the body look is important, most Cobra bodies here in NZ, apart from the Almac are way off beam, with sellers claiming they took the mould off an original car - yeh right they forgot to brace the donor body up properly and all the panels drooped and splayed out, before they took a mould off, they are rubbish and the more I look the more I just shut my mouth, and let them burble on and say my body is heavy and sh*t compared the theirs!

I personally like the ERA and sticking to the FE 427 engine, the ERA will be good for some fun on the track, resale value etc and keeping the Cobra look and theme they appear excellent.

If you are serious about track use, then you could with some difficulty add a backbone to an ERA, maybe ask them to do a custom stiffer chassis (they may provide custom work?) or do what I am doing building my own chassis based on original design and look, with a triangulated backbone through it. FFR do a nice chassis, I am not sure about their body accuracy, so what suits your taste and budget. As track performance is a major consideration for my road going Cobra, I would be a fool to say how ERA compares to FFR for lap times, as I have never compared them.

Also I am a committed FE fan again, as my body is a Mk3 427 shape etc, it would be an injustice (mispent $$$) not to fit an alloy FE 427, for many reasons, resale value, correct engine for model, and less stressed performance. The availability of alloy blocks has further enhanced my decision.

What ever you do in my opinion, everything has to compliment each other, eg. the look under hood, with the right header tank, brake reservoirs, throttle linkage, air ducts, wiring, that is where ERA do a great job.

[xlr8or]

The originality vs. my way argument is very valid here. How fast do you want the car will also have an impact as ERA maintains a steady, reliable production schedule and F5 has a higher production number and can usually get a kit shipped within a few weeks.

Read the comments, don't consider any of it as gospel, read the book suggested and get what's right for you. Better to get what works for you the first time. The book may put budget at the end of the list but if you have a realistic budget its probable that there are 8 or 10 choices that will fit within it.
I think it takes most people 6 to 12 months of researching various companies to make a final decision so don't feel rushed.

[daltondavid]

[quote]Originally posted by klayfish


But some will pay an incredible amount of money just for a certain look, or to get that CSX number for their car. It's all personal preference.

And some of us that do have to have that all important CSX# realize that it comes attched to an awesome Car. I searched and waited for a CSX at a Bargain rate! Not an everyday occurence, but not impossible either! Will you find me at the Glen anytime soon?? Highly unlikely. But do not rule it out! After I get some performance training, I would put this car through the paces. After all, It was made for that kind of use. No Heater/Defroster or Cup holders in my car!

[Excaliber]

Shows are fun, but I'm setting up my motor to go road racing this time. It was drag racing before. I've heard the ERA's do very well indeed on the track, I'll see about that!

[decooney]

For what its worth to anyone, I recently had the exciting opportunity to make sort of a reverse type of driving comparison between these two cars, first hand. Lighter weight ERA vs. higher horsepower FFR.

ERA lighter weight car -
Recently drove a purpose built lighter weight ERA 427, completely set up for handling in every way (breaking ALL the purist rules), with a high winding small block and light-weight trans and accessories. Using special springs/shocks, and 16" track tires. I can't even begin to convey how good this light weight ERA was and how much improved it was over my ERA big block car for pure handling and driving excitement. Side to side transition was amazingly improved, very firm, but it still had the quality ride and control that ERA is known for. Shaving another 200-300lbs off with these mods is incredible on the ERA. All I can say is WOW WOW WOW! Unfreakinbelieveable.

FFR higher horsepower car -
One month prior to driving the ERA a friend handed me the keys to his wicked 550hp FFR tire burning machine set up for street with 15" wheels/tires more like my ERA. Very fun to drive, quick, and a totally different feel. I've driven other ERAs and FFRs, but this car was a bit more edgey. Handled well for how it was set up for street driving. However, not nearly as smooth and solid as my ERA for street driving. Reconfirming once again, I could instantly see how the light weight FFR arrangement is still an explosion of fun for less money using more affordable and more readily available parts and configuration. If I wanted to build a small block Cobra for less money, or to just do tracking, the FFR is a great way to go and certainly most bang for the buck.

Conclusions:
The moral of the story for me is I shoud have never driven the light weight ERA . It made such an impression on me that I'm now considering saving my pennies for a while and pulling and selling my matching iron 428SCJ and Toploader trans to someone with a restore siutation, and replacing it with a light-weight aluminum engine/trans as others have done.