Ohio Speeding Ticket Ruling

[dcdoug]

Actually, patrickt posted a link to the summary findings and testimony in the case.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Actually, patrickt posted a link to the summary findings and testimony in the case.

It's generally more fun to opine about a case without actually having read it first.

[ERA Chas]

I respect the info the law guys have posted about their training and experiences-bottom line is they always use electrons as backup for their observation.

But I'd like to understand-is speed judgment based in a target's speed relative to other moving traffic around it? Or are officers trained to gauge a single moving object's speed? If traffic is moving at a steady 80 mph and I'm going 86 is that detectable, and to what end since all traffic is already 25 over posted limit?

Further, who (if either) is more likely to get a citation-a red C6 going 72 or a gray Hyundai going 78? Are these subjective evaluations or is the faster car always correctly stopped regardless of a vehicle's perceived speed capability?

[Fordzilla]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I respect the info the law guys have posted about their training and experiences-bottom line is they always use electrons as backup for their observation.

But I'd like to understand-is speed judgment based in a target's speed relative to other moving traffic around it? Or are officers trained to gauge a single moving object's speed? If traffic is moving at a steady 80 mph and I'm going 86 is that detectable, and to what end since all traffic is already 25 over posted limit?

Further, who (if either) is more likely to get a citation-a red C6 going 72 or a gray Hyundai going 78? Are these subjective evaluations or is the faster car always correctly stopped regardless of a vehicle's perceived speed capability?

Chas, Officers are trained in both a single object's speed & an object's speed relative to other moving objects around it. It comes from hands on experience. Training was a week of sitting with a radar gun on the highway for 8 hours straight each day doing nothing but estimating a vehicle's speed & using the radar gun to check the actual speed against the estimate. After a week you get quite good, actually you get within 3 miles an hour as that is what you have to be to pass the test. You continue to improve & sharpen your skills your entire time you are actually working Traffic detail. That's just natural- the more you do something, the better you get at it.

Now, Things can get confusing real fast with multiple moving targets, the dispatcher barking orders, your coffee spilling & your green horn partner talking about .....whatever. Anyway, yes, mistakes can be made. It's not a fail safe system but is the best system there is (Back when I was working it). Observe, Estimate the speed & use the radar to back up/confirm the speed.

Who gets a ticket?, well that's Officer's discretion. I wrote speeding tickets on about 25% of my stops. I issued verbal warnings about 75% of the time. I used speeding as probable cause to stop a vehicle & if everything was in order, let the violator go with a warning.
Now, alot of times that speeding stop leads to all kinds of other charges. Not only vehicle & traffic law stuff but drug running, smuggling, etc. Caught alot of bad guys because they were simply going to fast. Either over the posted limit or- speed too fast for conditions.........now that's a whole other can 'o' worms..

[Fordzilla]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Further, who (if either) is more likely to get a citation-a red C6 going 72 or a gray Hyundai going 78? Are these subjective evaluations or is the faster car always correctly stopped regardless of a vehicle's perceived speed capability?

On this one, (assuming they are traveling together down the highway in say a posted 55 zone) I stop the car that in my opinion or best guess may have other violations. I look at the appearance of the car, the driver, & any info I can discern in the small amount of time you have to make the decision. (Like the rear end sagging from 300 lbs of crack, etc) If nothing strikes me as being out of the ordinary & both cars seem to be just speeding cars, I would pull the faster clocked vehicle or even both if possible.

[ERA Chas]

Ford,
Thanks for the great, candid answers. I have a clearer understanding of things I've seen over the years.

I have been 'paced' many times from 1/4 mile back and close-up in my 'blind spot' off the left rear quarter. I knew I was being 'looked over' and you've explained why.

3400 RPM in the Cobra sounds like Armageddon but always with traffic flow and I've never been stopped. But I felt they were waiting for me to be an ass and blast through the surrounding pack. Failing that they always then just pull on past at 85 and go down the road.

[Stoney FFR]

Originally Posted by Fordzilla

On this one, (assuming they are traveling together down the highway in say a posted 55 zone) I stop the car that in my opinion or best guess may have other violations. I look at the appearance of the car, the driver, & any info I can discern in the small amount of time you have to make the decision. (Like the rear end sagging from 300 lbs of crack, etc) If nothing strikes me as being out of the ordinary & both cars seem to be just speeding cars, I would pull the faster clocked vehicle or even both if possible.

As Fordzilla alludes to, it's all officer discretion. The good cops that continually make great arrests have a sense of intuition about them that is hard to put a finger on. It might come down to pulling out behind both of the vehicles and then watching what both of the drivers do. One of the drivers might immediately pull to the right and stop while the other one guns it or starts making erratic lane changes. Or, maybe one of the drivers starts throwing dope out the windows. Or, maybe one of the drivers or it's passengers start making furtive movements inside the car. Or, maybe C-6 Covettes have been getting stolen lately, so the Vette gets stopped. Or, maybe there is a crime bulletin out for a Hyundai that has been involved in a string of burglaries lately, so the Hyundai gets stopped.

But yes, if all things are equal, typically the fastest vehicle will be stopped.

I encourage anybody that is seriously interested in this topic to go to your local police department and schedule a time to ride out with a patrol officer for a shift. You might find that it's an eye opening experience, much more so than an episode of COPS..

[BT SNAKE]

Amen Brother Stoney!

Most people are OK with their Police. But there are those that feel that the traffic cops are out to get their quota and don't give a hoot about their rights.
You got bad cops in this world as well as bad judges ,lawyers and just about any other occupation.
I have always suggested that folks take one friday night and ride with a squad. Man! does their perspective change. That change happens when the oberve the citizenry that they normally don't see. Police are all too familiar with these. The domesic calls and the bar fights. All this mixed in with armed robbery calls and an alarm or two.
I've always maintained that a police officer can earn his career salary in 8 seconds.
God bless our boys in blue. If not for them there would be Anarchy.

Hersh