fivebolt bellhousing identification

[peterpjb]

as I know all race cobras were equipped with cast-aluminium bellhousing due to homologation, also nowadays all cobras racing with FIA-HTP should be equipped with alu bellhouses

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

as I know all race cobras were equipped with cast-aluminium bellhousing due to homologation, also nowadays all cobras racing with FIA-HTP should be equipped with alu bellhouses

Period pictures 1963-1965, including forms submitted to the FIA and accepted show COBRA lettered for sure not stock aluminum bell housings. The pictures in the Ford acrhives and other sources show them in use by the time the CSX21xx series "LeMans Replicas" were completed.

The LeMans Replicas, the cut back door race cars, Dragonsnakes (CSX2019 is the lowest chassis number that I know SAI installed a COBRA scattershield on but there might be earlier ones), and Daytona Coupes all count as works race cars. (The best I can tell the AC Cars coupe serial A98 used a stock Ford housing but there is little of the bell housing shown in its new car pictures.)

I don't have photo copies of all the "FIA" papers but I have a some. The FIA forms were not a data dumps of AC Cars, Ford, Shelby, et allii engineering files. I lieu of having a room full of drawings pictures were taken of parts, sometimes assemblies, and sometimes sections of cars like assembled on the car under a fender shot of suspension and brakes. I noticed that in case of dispute at a race that Shelby was advised to have these forms and their pictures ready to prove that they items in question were approved. If picture proves it then if nothing else the FIA approved engine pictures showing a COBRA bell housing should be all that is required.

October 8, 1962 FIA recognition of Cobras and assigned “…FIA Recognition #79.”

No line item for bell housing specification in the forms supplied by the FIA for Shelby to fill out. The bell housing area is not shown in the attached engine photo.

Also interesting:
- 260 c.i.d. engine (actually on the form in cubic centimeters) with 11.5:1 SCR
- Induction was via a single 4V Holley® carburetor on a cast iron SK prefix XHP-260 intake (picture attached).

November 1962 updated FIA forms.

Again, no line item for bell housing specification in the forms supplied by the FIA for Shelby to fill out. No mention of an optional bell housing in the supplemental “Optional equipment…” list added to the forms submitted. My photo copy of the forms is not good enough to determine what kind of bell housing is on the engine shown.

Also interesting:
- 289 c.i.d. engine with 12:1 SCR
- Induction now listed as 4 each Weber 48 IDM carburetors on aluminum intake (picture attached) Legend says it was a wooden mock up painted silver for the photo.
- Magnesium wheels and bigger tires for rear added
- Earliest listing I have come across of all the optional race equipment available at the time.

September 1963 updated FIA forms.

Third set of forms second update and again, no line item for bell housing specification in the forms supplied by the FIA for Shelby to fill out. However the engine assembly photos (2 photos) attached on page 2 clearly shows a COBRA lettered cast steel scatter shield. Again, no mention of an optional bell housing in the supplemental “Optional equipment…” list added to the forms submitted. Okay, so I can’t find an itemized text for bell housing material but what the FIA approved and sent back shows a picture of a Shelby works race engine with a COBRA lettered scatter shield.

Also interesting:
- Pictures of cars and equipment are getting more detailed.
- The chassis that we believe to be CSX2138 shown as an example of multiple racing equipment details.
- 4 each Weber 48 IDM carburetors on COBRA lettered aluminum intake (picture attached)

February 6, 1964 “Re-confirming” FIA papers submittal.

Again, no line item for bell housing specification in the forms supplied by the FIA for Shelby to fill out. However the holotype race Cobra used as an example was CSX2138 and the engine shown in the factory portfolio of the car includes an engine shown with a COBRA lettered scattershield.

Also interesting:
- A picture of CSX2138 as received from England was attached to page 1.
- Aerodynamic hard top now a racing option.
- Steering now rack and pinion.
- Weber 48IDMs still listed

April 15, 1964 “AMENDMENT FORM” (signed off April 11) revising and amending the February 6, 1964 list.

- More optional racing equipment part selections are added

[peterpjb]

its true that in the FIA homologation form 115 there is no specific point to the gearbox material and even in the pictures it cannot be identificated precicely.

But all the additional forms e.g. the one added clarify the fact that all the gearbox material should be aluminium

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

its true that in the FIA homologation form 115 there is no specific point to the gearbox material and even in the pictures it cannot be identificated precicely.But all the additional forms e.g. the one added clarify the fact that all the gearbox material should be aluminum

You seem to be comparing what was (1960s documents and facts) with what is (modern forms)? The current historic FIA has little to do with what happened 1963-65. Several noted historians and several of us amateurs take exception to a lot of what the vintage racers are now allowed, as in much that is allowed now would not have been recognized by somebody inspecting a car in 1963-65. I have helped consult and provide period proof of some disputed subjects. It is in the interest of modern racers to NOT do much of anything like done in 1963-65. (In the 1960s you could have taken a near stock Cobra to an FIA event and race it and some owners did just that. They were not competitive but they participated. From what I recall about my conversations with racers back in the 1960s and 1970s was that with exceptions of some required safety equipment you could race a box stock car if you wanted. The rules and in many cases pictures gave owners lists of things that were approved to use in place of stock components in competition not that they had to.)

The choices for original car owners is have a car the way it was (or could have been if you could afford it) or the way it is allowed now. I have encountered owners of original racers very faithful to their 1960s configurations and they don’t bother to track the cars anymore because they cannot compete with cars built to current “historic” rules. I understand, I have an original car ex-vintage racer that I reverse the process on and went back to 1960s parts. Other than gaskets, pistons, and fluids the newest functional part on the engine is spark plug wires made in 1969. Otherwise parts are 1963-65 mostly, with a few 1966. It is just a street car for me but out playing with other original Cobras that have been modernized it is slow and brakes less aggressively.

Shelby American used and sold race cars with cast iron cased street and racing transmissions depending on time frame. Technically, if a race Cobra was FIA approved in 1962 there wasn’t an aluminum cased COBRA transmission yet.

In good period pictures most people can tell dark cast iron from bright cast aluminum. If the right side of the transmission is shown you can see very large assembly number prefixes stencil painted on the sides of iron cased transmissions Cobras were fitted with. Also worth noting is that even after aluminum cased transmissions went into use street and race, Shelby team car “aluminum” transmission sometimes were retrofitted cast iron tail shaft housing for endurance racing. Shelby sold transmission built up with aluminum main cases and iron tail shaft cases to racers and sold iron tail shaft cases separately so they could make the conversion themselves.

This thread started regarding bell housing so last comments on them I hope, Shelby/Ford didn’t make cast aluminum COBRA lettered bell housings with or without external ribs so all those COBRA lettered housings on works race cars 1963-65 were not stock Ford die cast aluminum bell housings.

Transmissions are a very complicated subject and we have rounded a lot information. What we have to date:

Borg-Warner T10 Design Four Speed Transmissions & Cobras

Most of the information below was compiled by Dick Roush. I have added to what he provided. When something is said about I, me, my, or mine this means Dan Case. In no sense can this commentary be considered complete. Transmissions used in Cobras as a subject is not a short simple subject and there is next to no “Shelby” documentation of what was done when or why. It is not easy to study transmissions in Cobras while they are sitting on their tires. Just because assembly X is in a car today does not mean it was in that car brand new, indeed any car used in serious racing probably went through several transmissions. Any car rebuilt from a wreck or worse yet old paper work should be viewed healthy amount of skepticism.

Could this transmission be original to this Cobra?
If you wonder about a transmission in a particular Cobra, start by comparing the assembly date stamped on the case to when the car was first a running car. (This is not a fool proof process because with enough effort dedicated owners and restorers often track down all manner of parts ‘date correct’ for the cars they work on.) Casting dates and assembly dates don’t align perfectly. The part being cast and when the part was assembled into a transmission are almost different subjects. Early made parts or assemblies can be in most any car but late made parts or assemblies cannot. An unmolested main case without an assembly date code stamped into it denotes that this particular main case was a service part sold separately at some point in time. New street car invoices did not itemize transmission model details. Why any particular street car got any particular gear set available at the time is a mystery.
Assembly Date Example: While the transmission in my red car was out I recorded the assembly code J284 2.
The engine was assembled in a batch produced August 25, 1964. The car was first invoiced as a running car during late November 1964. How does a J284 2 dated transmission fit time wise?
Based on code keys quoted for other cars that used Borg Warner T-10s:
J = September
28 = 28th day of the month
4 = 1964
2 = produced on second shift
An August engine and September transmission make great sense to me for a November car the way Ford and Shelby did things.