Rear bulkhead trim

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by LMH

Do you know the thickness of the leather once shived?
Larry

Not Roger here but the original samples in my collection are in BLACK

1) typical 0.05 to 0.06 inch thick:
- scuttle hoop cover in glove box
- scuttle hoop supports at transmission
- both design versions of cockpit door latch pull straps
- cockpit door stay covers
- top bow storage strap
- rear inner wheel houses in cockpit
- black carpet and side window pouch bindings (Note: The original RED carpet I have from CSX2122 is bound in red textured vinyl.)
- instrument panel
- exterior of glove box door

2) typical 0.04 to 0.05 inch thick
- glove box door stay

Dan

[rsk289]

Obviously, I concur with Dan's remarks - as I have gained pretty much all of my information from him! CSX2310 and COB6029 are fantastic resources, being (I think) pretty much the closest things to an unrestored Cobra available to us.
From what I've seen on COB6029, not all the leather is skived, some is full thickness - for example that used in the various straps and stays etc. Dash and rear wheelarches certainly are, basically I think anything that had to fit around a complex curve. As Dan has noted, original Cobra leather is not the same as used these days, but has a much 'coarser' crease pattern, and seems to be slightly glossier. I don't like it as much, but as it's not available anyway (or at least not in the UK) that's academic.

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by rsk289

Obviously, I concur with Dan's remarks - as I have gained pretty much all of my information from him! CSX2310 and COB6029 are fantastic resources, being (I think) pretty much the closest things to an unrestored Cobra available to us.
From what I've seen on COB6029, not all the leather is skived, some is full thickness - for example that used in the various straps and stays etc. Dash and rear wheelarches certainly are, basically I think anything that had to fit around a complex curve. As Dan has noted, original Cobra leather is not the same as used these days, but has a much 'coarser' crease pattern, and seems to be slightly glossier. I don't like it as much, but as it's not available anyway (or at least not in the UK) that's academic.

It is not just leathers, but the vinyls, heel pads, and carpets are long obsolete commercially.

The leather grain was created, per family friends of the Hurlock brothers who owned AC Cars, to be unique to AC Cars vehicles. When the original Thames Ditton works stopped making ACE and Cobra type vehicles that pretty much ended that supply chain.

The carpets in black and red were not rare in the 1960s but the automobile industry moved on to more durable designs and materials. The last commercially available stock in black that I know of was bought out by one high end restorer circa 2005-2006. Subsequent trips to England failed to find anymore and the manufacturer declined making anymore just like AC Cars used so that supply chain seems dead.

Ditto rubber heel pad material. A restorer traveled to England and bought up everything he could find at major supply houses. (It is said that the English businesses hardly ever discard anything new, obsolete or not, as long as there is any chance someone might come in and buy it. Roger does that sound about right?)

How about the vinyls, I know owners and restorers that have hunted new stock since the mid 1980s and never found anything close enough to call a great match.

Today it you want to get an excellent match to these materials AC cars used you have to find a manufacturer and have them made. That is not a cheap or fast process but it is being done especially for cars intended for events like Pebble Beach.

[rsk289]

Yes Dan, that's pretty much the case regarding UK suppliers - that's how I was lucky enough to find that the original manufacturer of the brass 1/4W size 3 wing nuts still exists (just) in Birmingham, and still had a dusty old boxful dating back to AC Cars original order from the 1920s.
It's interesting how sometimes this stuff does get remade. I have an early Land Rover (well, a '67) which used a particular heavy-duty vinyl in grey with a black grain pattern, known as 'elephant hide'. A specialist trimmer in the UK has started making a new version of this, which is a very good match. Unfortunately it's not cheap (he eventually sold me a roll of 5m for £250), and he's very reluctant to sell it loose at he makes complete trim panels to sell himself. I guess if the market's big enough...

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by rsk289

Yes Dan, that's pretty much the case regarding UK suppliers - that's how I was lucky enough to find that the original manufacturer of the brass 1/4W size 3 wing nuts still exists (just) in Birmingham, and still had a dusty old boxful dating back to AC Cars original order from the 1920s.
It's interesting how sometimes this stuff does get remade. I have an early Land Rover (well, a '67) which used a particular heavy-duty vinyl in grey with a black grain pattern, known as 'elephant hide'. A specialist trimmer in the UK has started making a new version of this, which is a very good match. Unfortunately it's not cheap (he eventually sold me a roll of 5m for £250), and he's very reluctant to sell it loose at he makes complete trim panels to sell himself. I guess if the market's big enough...

Big point there Roger, "....if the market's big enough....". So far, the market for truly original specification parts and materials for Cobras and 427 Cobras has not been "big enough" to support recreating the small parts and materials Bills Of Materials and trying to sell the parts retail. I understand as a single small run of new parts of most types might take ten years or longer to sell off. Businesses just don't do well with a decade or more long inventory turn overs.

A few us sometimes buy into upcoming runs even if our cars don't require the part right now because if might be decades before somebody makes another run or maybe they won't make a second run. I have no intention of making additional runs of any part that I have ever made or had made with one exception and it only works with original front ball joints.

[rsk289]

Yes, there's the rub. We are lucky to have Gerry Hawkridge in the UK who is producing patterns for parts and producing original-spec suspension components and some other items. I don't know how much profit he makes from this but the business does seem to be growing. He's making patterns at the moment for the aluminium water manifold casting, and the header tank aluminium pipe with heater take-off. I have impressed upon him that the manifold needs to have the original boss included so we owners can saw it off, as original. Finishline do a replica piece for this but they have omitted the boss, thereby marking the part out as a replica. They're none of them perfect, but they're trying, can't deny that. Getting a leather grain right is a whole different ball game, though.

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by rsk289

Yes, there's the rub. We are lucky to have Gerry Hawkridge in the UK who is producing patterns for parts and producing original-spec suspension components and some other items. I don't know how much profit he makes from this but the business does seem to be growing. He's making patterns at the moment for the aluminium water manifold casting, and the header tank aluminium pipe with heater take-off. I have impressed upon him that the manifold needs to have the original boss included so we owners can saw it off, as original. Finishline do a replica piece for this but they have omitted the boss, thereby marking the part out as a replica. They're none of them perfect, but they're trying, can't deny that. Getting a leather grain right is a whole different ball game, though.

I contacted him about one specific assembly that he made exactly like original. He only made a few and won't do it exact again as just like originals it was as fragile as original. What he sells now generally looks the same but has been updated to suit buyers that don't want something as fragile as an original. I don't know about any other of his parts but most of the American makers of parts have also updated designs in part to make them cheaper to make and or more robust. They then are not truly original specification anymore. Most of the new replacement parts I have held are at least 10% by weight heavier than originals as makers produce heavier duty parts for one reason or another. One maker was doing control arms that were twice as heavy as originals.