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Old 10-13-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Case View Post
Not interested in risking it or chasing somebody to get the original back. The last part I allowed a company to "borrow" took more than a year of frequent reminders to get back and then the "copy" didn't have any of the details the original did. I know of people that have had to retain a lawyer and start legal proceedings to get the originals back.

One of the 'SHELBY AC COBRA' reproductions was based on a casting a master off an original but like a copy of a copy of a facsimile each casting step blurred details. The originals have some fine art that would probably require a pattern maker to use an original to recreate the art.
Dan,

You could have it scanned digitally and use the file for reproduction. If you can find a service locally the part would never be out of your control.


Yes, I have had a similar experience with a loaned part.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:58 PM
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Dan,

You could have it scanned digitally and use the file for reproduction. If you can find a service locally the part would never be out of your control.


Yes, I have had a similar experience with a loaned part.
Besides wildly varying colors of paints used in "copies" none of them I have examined have made more than a token attempt to recreate the simulated snake skin background pattern in the SHELBY and COBRA text and behind the AC text. To make a really good engineering study would most likely removing the original paint to get access to the pattern detail....if one wanted an excellent recreation.

This emblem was removed from an early CSX20xx car by its owner in the 1960s as he replaced it with one of the versions of "COBRA" emblem. It was given to one of his friends. I was in the friend's tool box for several decades laying face down and that is why there is so much damage to the chromium plating.

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Last edited by Dan Case; 10-13-2018 at 01:08 PM.. Reason: add details and image
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Old 10-13-2018, 02:28 PM
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Default Emblem Type Set (partial)

Circa 1971 I answered an advertisement in the local news paper for a COBRA lettered intake manifold. It was cheap so I went to see it in person. It was cheap but it was not in very good condition. Before I left the seller told me that he had something I might like to see. He literally came back out of his house with a sock. In that sock was a pristine S1CS-C ‘COBRA’ emblem (Mr. Brock’s design). I tried to buy it but he would not price it. Sometime later the seller called me to come get it (for a price). I bought it.

Anyway, with that first emblem purchase, I got the idea that I would collect one ORIGINAL of every emblem installed on new Cobras. I had no idea what kind of learning experience, costs in time and money, and frustrations was about to happen. So since that summer circa 1971 I have hunted for, posted want advertisements, visited car owners, visited former Cobra owners, visited restoration shops, and watched for original emblems. Before long that meant including street and race new Cobras at AC Cars, Ed Hugus’ shop, and Shelby American. I am still hunting. There are just two items I have never come across that I could buy or trade for.

The holotype or type set of emblems (and chromated push nuts) below is the significant part of the type set for Cobras (CSX2xxx, COB/COX60xx chassis) I have collected. I included a windscreen maker’s tag just as a good place to keep such an easy to misplace item. Not shown is the one metal tag I have never located (don’t have one) or the two common large ‘COBRA’ stickers (my little display case got too small years ago) Shelby American often used on race cars in place of pinned on metal pieces. Also not shown is a Version 1 of the S1CS-B emblem (do not have one) or a Version 3 of the S1CS-B emblem, again my little display case became too small.

Top Row Left to Right:
Solid ‘AC’ front end solid disc mascot, originally installed by AC Cars on CSX2033.

Large script ‘AC’ boot lid mascot, originally installed by AC Cars on a COB60xx chassis.

S1CS-A ‘SHELBY AC COBRA’ front and rear mascot, originally installed on a CSX20xx chassis.
Note: Early cars finished in Ed Hugus’ shop retained the AC Cars installed emblems and one each S1CS-A emblems were added near each AC Cars part.

Second Row Left to Right:
New old stock ‘POWERED BY FOR EMBLEM’ (the only one I have ever found in new condition still)
Note: Over the production time period there were variations in the metal escutcheon and foil insert.

Elliott windscreen frame maker’s tag removed from a CSX23xx chassis.

Version 2 of the S1CS-B design (commissioned by Mr. Shelby).
Note: There were three versions of the S1CS-B part were used in production and two of them were sold as service parts as late as 1968. Version 1 had smooth chromium plating. Legend says Mr. Shelby thought they were too expensive so he had a cheaper brushed satin chromium plating version created. A second legend says that management Ford Motor Company thought that the brushed version looked cheap and told Shelby American to go back to the first version. Smooth chrome plating returned but an apparent change in processing details created a slightly different new third version. Version 1 used in production originally is very rare now in any condition. Large numbers of Version 2 got left over and are widely scattered in Cobra parts circles. Version 3 parts are not plentiful but they are not super rare either as they were sold as service replacements for years. Also note that some 1963 ‘COBRA KIT’ accessory kits included a pair of this type emblem and a different push nut than used in Cobra production.

Third Row Left to Right:
2” S1CS-C ‘COBRA’ emblem (Mr. Brock’s design) removed from a new Cobra in 1965. (The emblem that started my original emblems project in the mid 1970s.) Also note that some 1964-65 ‘COBRA KIT’ accessory kits included a pair of this type emblem and a different push nut than used in Cobra production.



AC CARS LTD identification tag used on CSX2201 and later American market chassis and including CSX3xxx, COB/COX60xx, and COB/COX61xx chassis. Original tag for COB6120
Note: Shelby American normally left the AC Cars tag on 427 Cobra chassis through the CSX31xx range. On later 427 Cobra chassis Shelby American normally replaced the AC tag with one of their various versions.

Fourth Row Left to Right
Special dichromated Tinnerman® brand push on nuts for use against aluminum coachwork. These two were originally installed on CSX3298.

New old stock ‘1965 Tag’. Shelby American sent out a letter to dealers dated September 1, 1964 along with a supply of these tags. Dealers were instructed to install one of these tags on the car to assist buyers in registering their new Cobras as 1965 models. When one of these letters surfaced identifying the chassis it and the tag was sent for came to light we suddenly got a good idea how so many cars made at any time since 1962 got a ‘1965 COBRA’ tag….it was up to dealers. Ah ha! This new old stock tag was kept by a dealer’s salesman as a souvenir until I managed to make connection with him and buy it. The original tags are fragile and the text damages easily. I have the tag in an archival safe sleeve inside the display case.

Owners tag. Dealers sent names of new Cobra buyers in and Shelby American had tags engraved with the original buyer’s name. Tags were mailed to the dealer. It was apparently up to the dealer to get the tags to the car buyer. Over the years I have seen very few original tags even on original owner Cobras. This tag in this image is a reproduction made by SAAC decades ago. Since this picture was taken I located a new old stock one to replace it with. Again it was a day one souvenir but instead of a salesman it was kept by a former Shelby American employee until I connected with him.



Like most Cobra subjects, nothing is simple about emblems related to Cobras.
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Old 10-13-2018, 04:58 PM
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You won't get a much more complete answer than that, thanks Dan.

Just a small point - COB cars, for the UK market, did not have the 'Powered by Ford' badges on the front wings.
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:07 PM
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You won't get a much more complete answer than that, thanks Dan.

Just a small point - COB cars, for the UK market, did not have the 'Powered by Ford' badges on the front wings.
You are welcome.

Not every CSX2xxx American market car was fitted with "POWERED BY FORD" wing emblems. If race cars had them they were usually moved to directly over the front wing vents and at least one street car had them over the vents.

As I say, almost no subject relative to Cobras is simple. For example: A comprehensive exhibit illustrating the known variations "POWERED BY FORD" emblem assemblies original to at least one Cobra might take up more space than my little display case from the 1970s will hold.
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Last edited by Dan Case; 10-13-2018 at 05:58 PM.. Reason: add detail
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:57 PM
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Like most Cobra subjects, nothing is simple about emblems related to Cobras.



Dan,

Wonderful emblem collection, a lot of hard work and patience went into gathering all of these fine examples.

Also an excellent description and history of these pieces, which is equally important and impressive. Well done sir!

- Tim
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:05 PM
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Like most Cobra subjects, nothing is simple about emblems related to Cobras.
How did you come to have 6120's chassis Tag...
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:22 AM
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How did you come to have 6120's chassis Tag...
The car was fitted with a new tag when the car was rebuilt. No apparent effort was made to mimic the original tag's text size or fonts.

The original tag AC Cars installed was sold to a private collector and memorabilia dealer. The dealer contacted me and asked if I wanted it for my holotype emblem collection.

f.y.i….I have not made a tabulation in a while but based on data I have collected, about 11% of the tags on Cobra (leaf spring chassis) chassis now (that originally had AC Cars tags) have some kind of replacement tag. Several companies and private parties have had replacement tags made for decades. Most of these aftermarket replacements are very obviously replacements if you know originals well.

One situation really clouds up the ‘original tag’ subject. When Ford and Shelby stopped buying AC Cars product, Shelby American ended up with dozens of blank chassis tags in all the black background photo etched versions used on Cobras and 427 Cobras. That was one AC tag and more than one Shelby version of Cobra racer or 427 Cobra tag. When Mr. Shelby ended his California operations for vehicles the tractor trailer loads of parts got scattered. Most of the chassis and coachwork parts got split up between two dealers. A least one person bought multiple sets of wheels, radiators, and other ‘big’ parts. One person managed to obtain what he described in person to me as a shoe box full of chassis number tags. That person use to advertise in the Shelby American Automobile Club monthly club publication. If you could prove that you owned a Cobra (1970s, masses of replicars were not out yet) he would custom stamp whatever you wanted on a shiny new old stock tag for a small fee. No surprise, he did a thriving business while supply lasted. This is how so many CSX2xxx cars before CSX2201 received genuine original tags with text(s) not quite like original. Cars CSX2201 and later got replacement tags for all kinds of reasons also including just getting a new pretty one.
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Old 04-01-2019, 05:50 PM
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Thanks Dan for all of your posts. You are as close as some of us are going to get to an original car.
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:00 PM
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Thanks Dan for all of your posts. You are as close as some of us are going to get to an original car.
You are most welcome. SAAC conventions are sometimes good places to get close looks at multiple cars at once.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Case View Post
The car was fitted with a new tag when the car was rebuilt. No apparent effort was made to mimic the original tag's text size or fonts.

The original tag AC Cars installed was sold to a private collector and memorabilia dealer. The dealer contacted me and asked if I wanted it for my holotype emblem collection.

f.y.i….I have not made a tabulation in a while but based on data I have collected, about 11% of the tags on Cobra (leaf spring chassis) chassis now (that originally had AC Cars tags) have some kind of replacement tag. Several companies and private parties have had replacement tags made for decades. Most of these aftermarket replacements are very obviously replacements if you know originals well.

One situation really clouds up the ‘original tag’ subject. When Ford and Shelby stopped buying AC Cars product, Shelby American ended up with dozens of blank chassis tags in all the black background photo etched versions used on Cobras and 427 Cobras. That was one AC tag and more than one Shelby version of Cobra racer or 427 Cobra tag. When Mr. Shelby ended his California operations for vehicles the tractor trailer loads of parts got scattered. Most of the chassis and coachwork parts got split up between two dealers. A least one person bought multiple sets of wheels, radiators, and other ‘big’ parts. One person managed to obtain what he described in person to me as a shoe box full of chassis number tags. That person use to advertise in the Shelby American Automobile Club monthly club publication. If you could prove that you owned a Cobra (1970s, masses of replicars were not out yet) he would custom stamp whatever you wanted on a shiny new old stock tag for a small fee. No surprise, he did a thriving business while supply lasted. This is how so many CSX2xxx cars before CSX2201 received genuine original tags with text(s) not quite like original. Cars CSX2201 and later got replacement tags for all kinds of reasons also including just getting a new pretty one.
Thanks Dan.. have you tried to contact the new owner to see if he would like the Original..
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:49 AM
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Thanks Dan.. have you tried to contact the new owner to see if he would like the Original..
No sir.
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