stroked small blocks in the race cars?

[MAStuart]

RPM's site still has them listed but trying to get one might be a different story. I am not sure what Mike gets to run his cnc program on a set of 65 289 heads . I have read that they were in the 230 CFM range with plenty of port wall left. He also stated that the race ported C6FE heads were good for another 20 HP over the 289 heads . Now if the price of the C6FE heads as posted in one of the above post is true I am not so sure that if a very good value other that bragging rights about how much your heads cost. But then again I dont have deep pockets. I have holes in mine!

[blykins]

Originally Posted by MAStuart

RPM's site still has them listed but trying to get one might be a different story. I am not sure what Mike gets to run his cnc program on a set of 65 289 heads . I have read that they were in the 230 CFM range with plenty of port wall left. He also stated that the race ported C6FE heads were good for another 20 HP over the 289 heads . Now if the price of the C6FE heads as posted in one of the above post is true I am not so sure that if a very good value other that bragging rights about how much your heads cost. But then again I dont have deep pockets. I have holes in mine!

I wouldn't be concerned about the port wall thickness, I'd be concerned about the port volume. A hogged out port, even if it flows a lot, would make for a slugglish 289 on the street. On the race course, it would take a bit of rpm to make it efficient.

[MAStuart]

Here is a link to Speed talk . Its on the second place Engine Masters 289. I think its worth reading all 4 or 5 pages of it . It goes on into some discusion on 289 vintage spec engines for both FIA and vintage racing here in the us also. After reading it let me know your thoughts on who you think is build the engines for Cobra automotive. Sound like they might work with one another.
https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/vie...hp?f=1&t=58737

[blykins]

Looks like I should have entered one of my 289's.

[MAStuart]

Brent I am sure you know how the Engine masters work. Keep in mind that the 289 only got one good pull. They were having some problems. It sound like if they would have gotten a few more pulls they might have won it. In what areas would your entry have been different. Just saying that they are built to get the best score in the RPM range that was chosen that year . Anyhow the engine sounds like it would be a nice street car / open track combo in an early mustang or cobra.

[blykins]

Yes, I am familiar with the EMC and I’m abreast of the issues they had.

Their hp/torque curves look very similar to my 289 FIA engines, along with the same horsepower and a little less torque. I think I could have been a contender there but my 289’s in that range run about $25k and that’s a lot for me to swallow without a customer to take it.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by blykins

Their hp/torque curves look very similar to my 289 FIA engines, along with the same horsepower and a little less torque. I think I could have been a contender there but my 289’s in that range run about $25k and that’s a lot for me to swallow without a customer to take it.

Well, if you competed, maybe that would be good advertisement to sell that engine, and also advertise your business for other projects. Also, you could tear down the EMC engine and sell its parts, or tame it a little for another customer.

[blykins]

It's a tremendous amount of work and takes away from money-making builds. I'm a one-man shop and stay busy. Got 11 FE's to do as we speak.

I did look through that Speedtalk thread though and saw a lot of similarity between that EMC engine and a few of my 289 engines. Good to see I'm at least doing something right.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Got 11 FE's to do as we speak.

Well it just might be time to expand a bit. There's a lot of skilled machine/engine guys out there that would love to work for you, especially if you have that kind of a backlog. Personally, I've had my resume in for the apprentice position at ERA for the last 12 years, but it's still "under review."

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by 1795

Paul,

Scat is grinding a crank. I am trying to stay within the rules and would have to prove that prior racers had stroked their engines, something that would be hard to do as not many people would admit to having stretched the rules previously.


Jim

If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly Jim, the original racers were prohibited from running a stroker crank. Regulations not withstanding some chose to run the bigger cranks anyway. In addition to running the bigger cranks they made a conscious decision not to advertise the fact they were doing so.

It appears that nothing has changed. The rules still prohibit the cranks and, like the original racers who did use them, a current user could build his motor with the bigger crank, just like the original racers did and then race the car with the illegal crank, making a conscious decision not to advertise the fact they were using a stroker.

It is hard to get any more period correct than that — replicated vintage cheating without advertisement, pretty authentic ...


Ed


p.s. Follow on thought. If you get tagged for an illegal stroker crank (which shouldn't happen if you don't tell anybody), you should maintain you were replicating what some of the better known 'rules optimizers' were doing back in the day soooo, you are not cheating!

Your argument would continue, positing that in actual fact you are using a well known, period correct, true to life (and form) performance enhancing technique from back in the day that anybody can still do today — which obviously means the car is not only period correct, but a legal vintage racer from that time period inder the rules.

[PDUB]

Originally Posted by blykins

A well ported 289 head will flow about 200-220 cfm, depending on the casting, while keeping the port volume in check. We convert them to 7mm or 5/16" valve stem size. That supports 450 hp easily.

Originally Posted by blykins

I wouldn't be concerned about the port wall thickness, I'd be concerned about the port volume. A hogged out port, even if it flows a lot, would make for a slugglish 289 on the street. On the race course, it would take a bit of rpm to make it efficient.

Do you send those heads out or do the porting in house, Brent? Are we talking about the same porting in both of your quotes above? In other words, if you port for the top quote, do you end up with the bottom quote, or can you have good street performance with the top quote? Reading between the lines, I think the latter good street performance, but just checking.

[1795]

Originally Posted by eschaider

If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly Jim, the original racers were prohibited from running a stroker crank. Regulations not withstanding some chose to run the bigger cranks anyway. In addition to running the bigger cranks they made a conscious decision not to advertise the fact they were doing so.

It appears that nothing has changed. The rules still prohibit the cranks and, like the original racers who did use them, a current user would build his motor with the bigger crank, just like the original racers did and then race the car with the illegal crank, making a conscious decision not to advertise the fact they were using a stroker.

It is hard to get any more period correct than that — replicated vintage cheating without advertisement, pretty authentic ...


Ed


p.s. Follow on thought. If you get tagged for an illegal stroker crank (which shouldn't happen if you don't tell anybody), you should maintain you were replicating what some of the better known 'rules optimizers' were doing back in the day soooo, you are not cheating!

Your argument would continue, positing that in actual fact you are using a well known, period correct, true to life (and form) performance enhancing technique from back in the day that anybody can still do today — which obviously means the car is not only period correct, but a legal vintage racer from that time period inder the rules.

Ed,

Will you be my legal counsel in case required? Unless someone complained, there would be no engine tear down or volume assessment. In vintage racing it is not like SCCA or other professional events in which the top three finishers go to impound to make sure that they were not cheating. There are several people who race vintage that everyone knows cheat, but given that there are no cash prizes nobody complains. Probably the only people that would complain are the ones that are cheating

Have a merry Christmas.

Jim

[1795]

Originally Posted by blykins

It's a tremendous amount of work and takes away from money-making builds. I'm a one-man shop and stay busy. Got 11 FE's to do as we speak.

I did look through that Speedtalk thread though and saw a lot of similarity between that EMC engine and a few of my 289 engines. Good to see I'm at least doing something right.

Brent,

I have no doubt that you would have done well in that completion.

Merry Christmas.

Jim

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by 1795

Ed,

Will you be my legal counsel in case required? Unless someone complained, there would be no engine tear down or volume assessment. In vintage racing it is not like SCCA or other professional events in which the top three finishers go to impound to make sure that they were not cheating. There are several people who race vintage that everyone knows cheat, but given that there are no cash prizes nobody complains. Probably the only people that wold complain are the ones that are cheating

Have a merry Christmas.

Jim

Merry Christmas & Happy New Years, Jim


Ed


p.s. Actually although I would love to, I am not licensed as legal counsel nor admitted to any state boards. That said however, Patrick is and it strikes me this is just the kind of argument he would derive immeasureable personal satisfaction not to mention pleasure from. Sort of like a cat playing with a mouse ...

[1795]

Ed,

I know that Patrick is a lawyer, thought that offering the job to you might get him interested....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1795

Ed,

I know that Patrick is a lawyer, thought that offering the job to you might get him interested....

All that would achieve is a quadrupling of the fee.

[eschaider]

But Patrick, there is an unusually high level of perverse satisfaction possible in this sort of engagement. I would think that alone would be sufficiently attractive to spawn some level of interest.

Ed

[1795]

Merry Christmas Patrick.

You could use the extra money to do something special.....like repaint your cobra

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1795

Merry Christmas Patrick.

You could use the extra money to do something special.....like repaint your cobra

Originally Posted by eschaider

But Patrick, there is an unusually high level of perverse satisfaction possible in this sort of engagement. I would think that alone would be sufficiently attractive to spawn some level of interest.

Ed

I will leave the perverse spawning to you two.

[eschaider]

Ahhh, a sad story indeed. Yet another missed opportunity falls by the side of the road ...


Ed