New to Club Cobra....???'s about origional fuel filters/pumps

[dlotz]

Hey guys

I am a newbe to CC and I was hoping that someone could educate me on the origional style fuel filters/pumps that were located in the trunk area (passenger side) of the origional 427's. I have seen a few pictures but would like some info on:

1. What they are
2. What they do
3. Do they make/can I use after market versions on my 427 build
4. Where can I get them?

Thanks a ton guys

Dan

[computerworks]

Welcome.

The dual electric fuel pumps were only in the trunk of Comp and S/C cars.

They originally used Stewart-Warner 240 pumps, which were quite popular in race applications in the 60's.

The electrics were strictly for a reserve. The 427 Comp Cobra had a mechanical pump up front. There were two fuel lines from the tank, one placed higher than the other. The upper one drove the mechanical and the lower one went to the electrics. There was a toggle switch on the dashboard to turn them on.

There was no fuel level gauge in the Comp Cobra...when they sputter on a low tank, they flipped on the electrics to pull the last drops until they could pit.

Today the 240's are rare and costly. Modern day equiv made by Facit (or the old Bendix) are used by Shelby and others in their replicas.

[1985 CCX]

Ron is right!

I have the 240's and they are expensive and repairs????
Might be better served to use inoperable units as decoration and use newer units for use.

Best of luck!

[dlotz]

Ok so

So in todays builds they aren't really used if/since you have a fuel gage in the dash other than building a period looking/functional build.

I want my build to be as close to a true 427SC that I can, for prosperity/traditional purposes. So here is my thought:

Since I am running a carb set up I only need one pick-up line coming out of the gas tank to feed the mechanical pump at the block. Since I don't need a return line back into the tank could I use that return tube to feed the SW electricals? Assuming the return line goes to the bottom of the tank. Or did the origionals have an additional line running out of the tank somewhere (i imagine at the bottom) specifically to feed the SW?

I probably would never use the SW pumps unless I foolishly let the gas gauge reach EMPTY. So if I never use them is there any damage by never using them? i guess I could purge them every now-and-then...

Your thoughts?

[dlotz]

Repos or inoperable origionals?

[computerworks]

Best bet is to cruise eBay. No repops are made that I am aware of.

2 good rebuilt 240's and the plumbing could set you back a grand in today's market, so it is expensive bling.

I've seen duds that could be had for a hundred or so. There are rebuild kits and guys that do rebuilds out there...but $$$.

[Excaliber]

dlotz, my hat is off to you man for keeping the faith. Specing a Cobra close to original is a worthy goal. Sacrafices will have to be made along the way in that pursuit, choose wisely.

...sometimes I do get tired of hearing how "modern" is better, plenty of them around, not so many purists left.

[1985 CCX]

All about the sacrafice, what Cobra are you starting with?

[dlotz]

Excaliber

Thanks for the support. I always said if I didn't get my degree in Engineering I wold have gotten a history degree.

I think finding a virgin 65 427 side oiler sent me down this path..

I will have to make some improvements like the TKO 600 over the top loader an the 8.8 IRS over Salsbury, but other than that it's pretty much the same set-up.

Just trying to preserve some history....

[Excaliber]

Can't say I wouldn't go with a T600, but I'd be darn sure to get the correct looking gear shift for it! Can't beat a side oiler for a good place to start the journey. CCX is an excellent choice for an accurate body shape, considered that option myself. An older Hi Tech as well. Kirkham, ERA, several good choices out there.

Body shape, wheels, dash, period style gauges (with correct mounting), anything readily visible, is paramount. Under the skin more liberities can be taken depending on budget, practicality of obtaining parts and personal taste.

[dlotz]

CCX / Excaliber

I'm starting with a Factory Five. I know there needs to be some significant glass work to the body, but I'm ok with that. Build also includes:

Vintage 65 sideoiler
vintage 65 std/std crank
Vintage 65 med rise heads
Origional BC/BD holley carbs (yep going w/duels)
Rest of engine will be off the shelf stuff

15" pin drive halibrands from Vintage wheels w/good year blue streaks
Gold spinners
Custom 12" wilwood brakes from Gordon
TKO 600 (have a lockout style shifter)
Smiths Gauges (comp layout)
Custom rivet on aluminum scoop (might have a height issue with those carbs)
Manual steering/brakes
8.8 IRS w/3.27 gears (might switch to 3.55 later)
Custom roll bar (wider stance/shorter/ and skinnier tubes)

The most fun I am having is doing all the research! Like I said HISTORY

Thanks for the help

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by dlotz

I'm starting with a Factory Five. I know there needs to be some significant glass work to the body, but I'm ok with that.

You have a PM.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dlotz

I want my build to be as close to a true 427SC that I can, for posterity/traditional purposes.

Originally Posted by dlotz

I'm starting with a Factory Five. I know there needs to be some significant glass work to the body, but I'm ok with that.

Have you already bought your FFR? Or are you still in your "planning phase?"

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Have you already bought your FFR? Or are you still in your "planning phase?"

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by dlotz

I'm starting with a Factory Five. I know there needs to be some significant glass work to the body, but I'm ok with that.

Well.........I'm not trying to pee in anyones Cheerios here, but........
You're wanting to build an originality based car, and you're starting with what has to be one of the least original looking cars out there. Have you really thought about this? FFR's are great cars, really they are. They have many strengths, but originality is definitely NOT one of them. By the time you carve it up, hide the Frankenstein rocker panel body mount bolts, try to cobble together a decent looking original style interior and perform the Jenny Craig procedure on the perky butt, you're near or past the cost of a more original looking style car. Really, you need to re-think this if it isn't too late. If you can't spring the bucks for an ERA and you're stuck on building it yourself, at least look at a few others that are really only a small bit more on cost to a FFR kit, and certainly at or less money than the FFR after all the major surgery. Have you checked out cars like Unique, Premier, etc? Premier (out of Kansas City) is little known but builds a great looking car. Unique is very popular as well.

FFR guys, please don't start a rant, I'm not knocking your cars. There are many things they do well, and yes, with enough money and effort they can certainly be made to look vaguely original. However, this is not their forte, and it's a whole lot more practical for an originality based build to start with a more original looking car. That's all I'm sayin'. I can feel the FFR artillery inbound already.....

[Power Surge]

You can definitely make a decent vintage looking FFR on the outside (Allen English's car is a great example), but don't kid yourself that you're going to build an "accurate" to original FFR. Just not gonna happen. The layout and construction of the car is just WAY to far removed from being accurate.

And yes, I am saying this with first hand experience. My first Cobra was an FFR that I planned to build "accurately". There's a reason I switched to Kirkhams and Shelbys.

But if you insist on using an FFR for this project, we'll help best we can.

[Three Peaks]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Well.........I'm not trying to pee in anyones Cheerios here, but........
You're wanting to build an originality based car, and you're starting with what has to be one of the least original looking cars out there. Have you really thought about this? FFR's are great cars, really they are. They have many strengths, but originality is definitely NOT one of them. By the time you carve it up, hide the Frankenstein rocker panel body mount bolts, try to cobble together a decent looking original style interior and perform the Jenny Craig procedure on the perky butt, you're near or past the cost of a more original looking style car. Really, you need to re-think this if it isn't too late. If you can't spring the bucks for an ERA and you're stuck on building it yourself, at least look at a few others that are really only a small bit more on cost to a FFR kit, and certainly at or less money than the FFR after all the major surgery. Have you checked out cars like Unique, Premier, etc? Premier (out of Kansas City) is little known but builds a great looking car. Unique is very popular as well.

FFR guys, please don't start a rant, I'm not knocking your cars. There are many things they do well, and yes, with enough money and effort they can certainly be made to look vaguely original. However, this is not their forte, and it's a whole lot more practical for an originality based build to start with a more original looking car. That's all I'm sayin'. I can feel the FFR artillery inbound already.....

I had the same comment on the FFR forum, but didn't take the time to explain myself- not wanting to be tarred and feathered by the faithful.

The hardest parts to bring up to original look would be the wheel openings. They just aren't concentric as compared to the originals, Kirkhams, ERA, etc... and would be difficult to reshape without major hassles. The visible mounting bolts and straight sided rockers that don't wrap under like the mentioned models are another non-original mark that is almost impossible to modify.
Adding fuel pumps in the trunk really isn't going to make an FFR look like an original, but with enough work, money, good paint, and other touches, it will look really good and fool a lot of people who wouldn't know an original from a Shell Valley, FFR, etc.....
As pointed out above, by time you have it looking original you could easily have gotten another, more original looking kit to start with..... IMHO.

Bob

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

.... period style gauges (with correct mounting).

- Ive got a set of Smiths gauges on order, so thought i had the dash area licked, but what does 'correct mounting' mean? Layout on the dash ... or something else i need to worry about?

cheers,
Kevin

[Excaliber]

FFR then, OK then, ya got your work cut out for you. Here's the plan. Take a sawzall and cut the body just behind the doors to lower that "perky butt". Fill in the gap with some glass and the rest will "buff right out".

I've seen a couple of FFR's done this way and it dramatically improves the look.

[Excaliber]

HA HA HA, ye haw, that's a knee slapper right there elmariachi.