Opinions please-would this make for a succesful kit?

[john chesnut]

Alot of you know me. I love cars, all performance cars! I have a Cobra replica that I have scratch built. I use to own Dragon Motor Cars. I have recently finished a new version of that car that I call my Spyder. I have sold kits of the Dragons. I considered marketing my Cobra. I even have advertised it on this forum. But, recent health issures caused me to stop selling any cars. I have never made money from my cars. That was not the point. I did them because I enjoyed doing my own thing and interacting with other car guys. I have participated in many Run and Guns and have done well with my creations despite my limited ability as a driver.

While not finished yet, I really like this Hot Rod pick up truck on my Cobra chassis. My chassis uses all C5 Corvette suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, engines, diff, ect. At 1800lbs the performance is amazing. The parts are pretty reasonable, the construction pretty simple, and being a Hot Rod it's different and easy to register in most states. I am thinking that there may be a market for it. I am not trying to sell it here, just seeking input. Do you think that there is a market for it? If the response is good I may try to find a company that would be willing to manufacture it for me. (I have jigs, molds, and the other necessary items to have a kit made)

A kit would include a steel space frame with aluminum skins, all of the body parts, new narrower axles, coil over shocks and mounts, radiator, new custom steering rack, radiator, lights, headers and sidepipes, an adapter for the C5 differential that allows you to use a driveshaft instead of the Vettes transaxle, steering shafts, fuel tank and other parts. It would be set up for the 1997-2003 C5 suspension. Any LS engine would fit with a Tremec 6 speed.

I know that this is a Cobra forum. I am just looking for a general reaction. I understand that it may not appeal to alot of you. Thanks, John

[mr bruce]

I know all the work that it takes to build something like that, but it needs a more traditional style body, if you could fit the chassis under a more authentic Ford or Chevy body, like in the 30s to early 40s it might be more marketable. The cars that are hot now are the 36-39 Fords and Chevys

[Zedn]

I think the shape is fantastic. Its kind of like a cross between a hot rod and a clubby / lotus 7.

This would have to be the best non replica kit car that i have seen. with that chassis design and suspension there would be no traditional hotrod (eg Boyd) that would handle nearly as well.

I think you have done a great job and would expect there would be a market for it.

[vector1]

something similiar in a lotus 7 body? you have the right idea, a good platform, you just need to pick a body style that will go over well and keep the price down. what would be the price btw?

[john chesnut]

Thanks for the input. I really do appreciate all comments. I have done drawings for this chassis with a Lotus 7 inspired body. It would be relatively simple to make one up and I think that it would be cool. The way that I have it drawn it would come with a full roll cage. Full double wishbone independent suspension, aluminum suspension, alumuinum fuel injected V8, 6 speed, 54% rear weight, room for large drivers to be comfortable, sounds like fun to me!

I drove a version of this chassis at Run n Gun a couple of years ago. I had a stock engine, suspension pieces and stock run flat tires. I was about 5 seconds a lap faster than other cars in my class. I was told, (nicely) that when I came back that I would have to run in the PRO class regardless of power or the tires I was running. The chasiss is amazing.

I want to be careful about not violating any rules of the forum. I am not sure that I can discuss what I think the price might be with out violating them. Moderator, can I discuss potential pricing? Thanks.

[ACademic]

I would propose that the front end be cleaned up a bit. To me it has that "cow catcher" front that you see on old steam engines. I would clean up the surround/bezel around the grill and find a way to either integrate the headlamps into the front fenders, or go with a smaller diameter (xenon) bulb set-up. But that's just me. That chassis has to be a real performer...car probably takes corners like it's on rails!

[Tommy]

John,
This is more of a brain storming idea than a fully fleshed out suggestion, but here goes. I've seen some rods inspired by actual race cars. Given the high performance chassis under your car, perhaps you could fashion a body that captures the spirit of an early Indy car, or a salt flat racer, or cross between a Model T and a winged sprint car.

[slider701]

I have to agree with ACademic..........the front of the vehicle is just not in sync with the theme/looks of the back of the vehicle. The back half looks good........maybe just some clean up on the lights.....maybe something more modern or integrated.

The front end just doesn't fit with the overall uniqueness of this vehicle......needs some major work in my opinion.

[S3RP3NT]

Originally Posted by slider701

I have to agree with ACademic..........the front of the vehicle is just not in sync with the theme/looks of the back of the vehicle. The back half looks good...

The front end just doesn't fit with the overall uniqueness of this vehicle......needs some major work in my opinion.

Ditto. (removed a suggestion I couldn't "Ditto" from the above quote)

[NFLDMNBB]

Just my opinion. The front end looks like a locomotive to me. I personally like it but it could use more of a 33 Ford front end. Similar to FFR’s 33.

Roger

[john chesnut]

I agree about the front end look. I really struggled with it. If I go forward with it I will redesign it. Since I have molds for the current front end I would be able to supply the existing front body parts if the customer preferred them. I was thinking of marketing the chassis with the customers choice of the Hot Rod body or a Lotus 7 inspired body for a targeted kit price of $14,990. This would include the completed frame, precut-prebent aluminum skins, choice of body, the conversion for the diff to take a driveshaft, coil over shock mounts, new steering rack, new rear axles, the headers and side pipes, roll bars, steering shafts and components, and lights, a build manual and parts list for the parts I used. If I go forward I am a long way from having kits ready to ship. I am not taking orders. I have not even decided to do it. I very much appreciate honest input. John

[Wbulk]

When I first saw the pictures of the truck my attention on it lasted for about five seconds. So, I started evaluating what makes a car popular and makes people willing to part with their hard earned money. First, I think it's the looks. It's that "got to have" that car, or boat, or motorcycle feeling. And that feeling needs to be by a large number of people. Then it's the performance and handling issues after the fact.

[slider701]

I think it was Bob Lutz who once said (loosely paraphrased)..."People don't buy watches to tell time, they buy them for the looks. I can buy a $10 Timex that keeps the same time as a Rolex." He was using this analogy to the styling on vehicles and why people didn't want to buy GM products.

Same can be said about kit cars.The Cobra is so popular because of the inherent sexiness of the body and it's timeless beauty. Yes, you'll have people buy the kit for the engineering that goes into the chassis but to make it really successful (meaning you can actually make money off it) then the looks have to draw the masses of people in so you sell more than 2 of them.

Have you thought about approaching an industry leading designer, like Camilo Pardo (Ford GT), Joe Iacono (http://joeiacono.com/) or any other up/coming car designers to see if you could partner with them? What these guys are usually lacking is the ability to get anything more than just a design on paper or go past the body/paint work. They need someone who can design and manufacture the whole car from the ground up, allowing them to do the exterior design on your creation.

[Wbulk]

I was at Kirkhams open house last spring and they had a car designer there that had some outstanding drawings of cars that he did. I think he was a recent graduate of BYU. He may have just the design you need, and would like to have one of his cars become real. Contact David Kirkham for the guys name.

[767Jockey]

Wow, the chassis on this looks to be outstanding. How hard is it, and how costly, to source the Corvette suspension pieces needed to complete the chassis? I would think that a body that DOESN'T look like a kit car would make this thing a huge success. I can think of a million options - a nice, accurate '32 Ford three window coupe body (I know....there's LOTS of them out there, but THAT's the appeal - everyone loves them, but NONE of them have this performance capability) , or a new design body that replicates in general the theme of a golden age Trans Am car from the late 60's early 70's - the Mustang- Camaro - Javelin type look, or a late 50's early 60's Corvette look, or a "big" Austin Healy - early Jag traditional English sports car look, or a Corvette Grand Sport type body. I think that keeping it to something that has proven wide appeal, something that does NOT look like a one off kit car, coupled with this incredible chassis, would be a killer deal. How about a Lola Can Am car? Just thinkin' and dreamin'........

[tkb289]

John,

Here are some comments and suggestions for what it's worth ...

- Agree with the comments above, the front end needs some work. It looks a bit like a snow plow to me (no offense intended ). Perhaps frame in the radiator a bit more to make it less prominent and have the front valence curve towards the car … then add a chin spoiler if desired. Also, add a honey comb grill, similar to what was used on the '65 Mustang. I would also stick with traditional full size headlights, not the small xenon lights that are on newer cars, they have more of a vintage look.

- The wheels and tires are good for the track and very cost effective, but don't have the look to go with the rest of the car. Picture a person with a well worn leather jacket, blue jeans and a pair of flashy Nike sneakers … just does not fit … put on a pair of classic Converse High Tops, that completes 'the look'.

Same for the car … would suggest some American Racing Torque Thrust D or Minilite replica wheels with 50 or 60 series rubber, for that vintage racing look and feel.

Another option world be some old school steel rims, painted black, red or a cream color … dog dish hub caps, optional .

These would need to be custom made for the correct width and offset, I am sure there are shops that can do this.

You could offer the car with the Corvette wheels and rubber, perfect for track work, and have the street rims and tires as an option. Granted they would not handle as well as the Corvette setup, but on the street, it's probably unlikely someone would drive the car to full limits, that would be best done on a track.

- Offer a roll bar, some street guys might want one and it's probably a requirement for serious racing.

Great work, will be very interested to see how your idea evolves and proceeds … best of luck!

[vector1]

a frame/cage that would be scca approved which is somewhat overkill but the bench mark for a lot of racing venues, could make this an option. computer aided or designed suspension location and chassis design by someone who has experience in this field.

also heim joints for the inner pickup points, no rubber bushings. radiator exhaust out the top, not through the engine bay. cold air intake for engine, i think some of the intake manifolds can be reversed and intake from the rear, not sure though. stock ls exhaust manifolds.

[john chesnut]

Again, thanks for ALL of the input. This is an interesting discussion and it really has me thinking. As for the chassis. One of my previous customers is a retired GM chassis/suspension engineer. He is also a consultant to major companies in this field. He has helped me as I made use of the Vette parts in the shorter wheelbase/narrow track Cobra sized frame. I believe that with proper roll over protection that the frame would be legal in different forms of racing.

The Vette parts are readily available and reasonably priced. They can also be purchased directly from GM for less than you might think.

I made my own body from scratch for a similiar frame but that has the stock C5 wheelbase and track. I moved the engine rearward 22inches for better balance. This body was inspired by the 1958 Lister. It is a one off.

I like the Lister alot. I believe that it had the same 90inch wheelbase as the Cobra. Beck did a Lister replica but made it longer and wider than original and used a Porsche Speedster windshield. I have thought about doing a more accurate replica of the Lister to fit the 90 inch wheelbase. Any thoughts on this option? The Vette connection would be a natural as some of the Listers were brought to the USA and were fitted with the early Corvette V8 engine instead of the Jag 6 cylinder engine. As you can see there are alot of possibilities!

[767Jockey]

Yep, a classic British sports car body, accurately done, and painted in beautiful BRG. Gotta love it, John.

[vector1]

keep the longer wheelbase if possible with the setback engine and all heavy stuff close to the polar moment(?). a fiberglass top to keep the sun off which can also be used to cover the passenger compartment when racing for aerodynamics, also bodywork to keep the thing on the ground, for example a belly pan or framework to attach it to.

don't forget abs and/or traction control if available

dibs on guinea pig