Aluminum Body

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I seem to have missed the firestorm part. This seems like a pretty civilized thread to me.

Agreed...folks seem to be doing their best to answer the threadstarter's questions. Oh well.

[1ntCobra]

There is something weird about 2396.



I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe the missing sun visor, the odd passenger side mirror, the missing rear bumper, the street car fill cap, the graffiti on the glove box, hmm, what is it?

[1ntCobra]

Too original cars, 3003 and 3035, next to each other. Do those oil cooler scoops like the same?



I suspect the cooler scoops are easily banged up and don't always get back to the same shape when repaired.

The Kirkhams do custom work. I'm sure they could make your oil cooler scoop look whatever way you want, for a price.

[fordracing65]

The rear fenders are different as well, the blue car looks different all over, the fender looks especially different, oil cooler as well.

[1ntCobra]

I think I see what you are talking about with the Kirkham oil cooler scoop.



That looks like the incorrect Brian Angliss style that is found on the rebodied FIA originals and most FIA replicas. I think Panel Craft is the only Cobra replica maker that gets the oil cooler scoop correct on an FIA body car.

[Cobrafan1]

lol, all I wanted to know was the difference between the new AC bodies and the Kirkhams. Maybe its the internet. I thought the question was directed towards me....Sometimes its difficult to have a conversation online without misunderstandings occurring.....

[LMH]

For me, I like the little "differences" that come with handmade bodies.
But then again, I am one of those "nuts" too!
Larry

[Cobrafan1]

LMH, I agree!

[BMK]

The solid wooden buck that Kirkham uses (shown on their site) at the old Mig factory is very impressive.

My understanding is that Kirkham are supplying bodies to Shelby also - but may be wrong here..

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by BMK

...My understanding is that Kirkham are supplying bodies to Shelby also - but may be wrong here..

Kirkham supplies Body and Frame to Shelby for their aluminum bodied CSX4000/6000 series cars. Early aluminum body CSX4000 cars were sourced from at least one other vendor, I think it was Kimmons?

Shelby also had a more premium priced aluminum bodied CSX1000 series sourced from "AC", but as with any project involving the current owner of "AC", it is amazing that any cars were produced at all. Now it appears that Shelby is again selling a CSX1000 series car apparently sourced from North Devon Metalcraft. Interestingly, I don't see CSX1000 mentioned on the Shelby American website.

[65SC]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Kirkham supplies Body and Frame to Shelby for their aluminum bodied CSX4000/6000 series cars. Early aluminum body CSX4000 cars were sourced from at least one other vendor, I think it was Kimmons?

Shelby also had a more premium priced aluminum bodied CSX1000 series sourced from "AC", but as with any project involving the current owner of "AC", it is amazing that any cars were produced at all. Now it appears that Shelby is again selling a CSX1000 series car apparently sourced from North Devon Metalcraft. Interestingly, I don't see CSX1000 mentioned on the Shelby American website.

interesting
North Devon Metalcraft | Manufacturers of replacement steel and aluminium motor bodies

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Kirkham supplies Body and Frame to Shelby for their aluminum bodied CSX4000/6000 series cars. Early aluminum body CSX4000 cars were sourced from at least one other vendor, I think it was Kimmons?

Shelby also had a more premium priced aluminum bodied CSX1000 series sourced from "AC", but as with any project involving the current owner of "AC", it is amazing that any cars were produced at all. Now it appears that Shelby is again selling a CSX1000 series car apparently sourced from North Devon Metalcraft. Interestingly, I don't see CSX1000 mentioned on the Shelby American website.

To be more precise, Kirkham manufactures for Shelby American the frame and roller to Shelby specifications. It is my understanding there are few if any interchangeable parts.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

To be more precise, Kirkham manufactures for Shelby American the frame and roller to Shelby specifications. It is my understanding there are few if any interchangeable parts.

Well, sort of...

The Shelby specific frame is true, but apparently it is only a very minor difference. Apparently the CSX4000/6000 frame has the motor mounts in a Shelby specific location that slightly different than a CSX3000 original while the Kirkham roller has the motor mounts in the original location.

For the Shelby aluminum bodied FIA cars, Shelby apparently specifies the incorrect "Angliss" style oil cooler scoop. Kirkham used to use the same "Angliss" style scoop on its FIA style cars as well, but Peter Brock told the Kirkhams how to "correctly" make the scoop, which is to just cut an opening and pull the metal down. CSX2345 was the only FIA that was not rebodied. It's oil cooler scoop looks nice, but may have been made pretty during a restoration.

Both Kirkham and Shelby CSX4000/6000 frames are built so that they are interchangeable with original CSX3000 series suspension components. The CSX4000/6000 series suspension pieces are apparently identical in appearance to the CSX3000 pieces. Kirkhams have billet suspension components that will bolt directly to an original CSX3000 frame. You can order a Kirkham with original style suspension components for something like a $15k upgrade.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

To be more precise, Kirkham manufactures for Shelby American the frame and roller to Shelby specifications. It is my understanding there are few if any interchangeable parts.

When you use the word "roller" in that context, I think that is wrong. I think Kirkham delivers only a frame with a body attached to Shelby.

I don't think Kirkham supplies anything else. Therefore there would be no suspension pieces, lights, wiring, gauges, wheels, tires, seats or anything that you would typically get with a roller. Shelby adds all of the other parts to build the car up to a "roller" and paints it too.

[ERA Chas]

1ntCobra,
You seem to write authoritatively about both manufacturers. Now David has not participated here nor a current Shelby member, but you have provided detailed information of the sort I would expect from them. You have generously provided a wealth of reference photos with comment about all of them.
My simple question is, what is the source of your apparent wealth of knowledge? In no way am I questioning the veracity of your comments.
Indeed, I applaud them and appreciate your sharing such detailed information. I'm just trying to assess the accuracy and some 'credential' would help to do that. Other than as Jamo stated, you have been a serious 'shopper' there is no gauge by your presence here of your experience. Other than a gallery full of SAAC event attendance.
My question is NOT an attempt to discredit nor in any other way cast a negative take on your information.
Just like to gauge how accurate the source might be given the absence of the company participants.
Thanks,

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

When you use the word "roller" in that context, I think that is wrong. I think Kirkham delivers only a frame with a body attached to Shelby.

I don't think Kirkham supplies anything else. Therefore there would be no suspension pieces, lights, wiring, gauges, wheels, tires, seats or anything that you would typically get with a roller. Shelby adds all of the other parts to build the car up to a "roller" and paints it too.

Agreed. What they get is more of the roller frame/body component... The rest is done in the shop in Vegas.

[1ntCobra]

Hmm, I suppose since the Shelby specified Kirkham frame and Kirkham frame use different motor mount locations, that would mean that the driveshaft lengths would be different and thus not interchangeable.

[Cobrafan1]

Chas, I haven't seen anything that 1ntcobra has said that is incorrect. And if so, thats fine. This is a discussion. We are all here to learn. What are your credentials as you say?

[ERA Chas]

Fan,
I am NOT questioning his credentials NOR challenging his information. Merely asking what they are or the source of his information. So that we may be confident that what we're learning is accurate Shelby / Kirkham info. I don't need credentials in this discussion as I've made no statements whatsoever, no dispute or presented anything contra to his statements as 'fact'.
My only credential on this forum is that I've built, rebuilt and used my car over the course of two-plus decades. My other credential is that I'm a 'student of the game', always anxious to learn accurate facts and never offer information outside of my own experience.
Resume your seat, and hopefully 1nt will respond to my inquiry.

[Cobrafan1]

lol, well if you have two decades of experience then you probably know all the answers, chas. I'll take my seat when you lower your nose chas...hrumph! lol