Aluminum Body

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by BMK

...My understanding is that Kirkham are supplying bodies to Shelby also - but may be wrong here..

Kirkham supplies Body and Frame to Shelby for their aluminum bodied CSX4000/6000 series cars. Early aluminum body CSX4000 cars were sourced from at least one other vendor, I think it was Kimmons?

Shelby also had a more premium priced aluminum bodied CSX1000 series sourced from "AC", but as with any project involving the current owner of "AC", it is amazing that any cars were produced at all. Now it appears that Shelby is again selling a CSX1000 series car apparently sourced from North Devon Metalcraft. Interestingly, I don't see CSX1000 mentioned on the Shelby American website.

[65SC]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Kirkham supplies Body and Frame to Shelby for their aluminum bodied CSX4000/6000 series cars. Early aluminum body CSX4000 cars were sourced from at least one other vendor, I think it was Kimmons?

Shelby also had a more premium priced aluminum bodied CSX1000 series sourced from "AC", but as with any project involving the current owner of "AC", it is amazing that any cars were produced at all. Now it appears that Shelby is again selling a CSX1000 series car apparently sourced from North Devon Metalcraft. Interestingly, I don't see CSX1000 mentioned on the Shelby American website.

interesting
North Devon Metalcraft | Manufacturers of replacement steel and aluminium motor bodies

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Kirkham supplies Body and Frame to Shelby for their aluminum bodied CSX4000/6000 series cars. Early aluminum body CSX4000 cars were sourced from at least one other vendor, I think it was Kimmons?

Shelby also had a more premium priced aluminum bodied CSX1000 series sourced from "AC", but as with any project involving the current owner of "AC", it is amazing that any cars were produced at all. Now it appears that Shelby is again selling a CSX1000 series car apparently sourced from North Devon Metalcraft. Interestingly, I don't see CSX1000 mentioned on the Shelby American website.

To be more precise, Kirkham manufactures for Shelby American the frame and roller to Shelby specifications. It is my understanding there are few if any interchangeable parts.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

To be more precise, Kirkham manufactures for Shelby American the frame and roller to Shelby specifications. It is my understanding there are few if any interchangeable parts.

Well, sort of...

The Shelby specific frame is true, but apparently it is only a very minor difference. Apparently the CSX4000/6000 frame has the motor mounts in a Shelby specific location that slightly different than a CSX3000 original while the Kirkham roller has the motor mounts in the original location.

For the Shelby aluminum bodied FIA cars, Shelby apparently specifies the incorrect "Angliss" style oil cooler scoop. Kirkham used to use the same "Angliss" style scoop on its FIA style cars as well, but Peter Brock told the Kirkhams how to "correctly" make the scoop, which is to just cut an opening and pull the metal down. CSX2345 was the only FIA that was not rebodied. It's oil cooler scoop looks nice, but may have been made pretty during a restoration.

Both Kirkham and Shelby CSX4000/6000 frames are built so that they are interchangeable with original CSX3000 series suspension components. The CSX4000/6000 series suspension pieces are apparently identical in appearance to the CSX3000 pieces. Kirkhams have billet suspension components that will bolt directly to an original CSX3000 frame. You can order a Kirkham with original style suspension components for something like a $15k upgrade.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

To be more precise, Kirkham manufactures for Shelby American the frame and roller to Shelby specifications. It is my understanding there are few if any interchangeable parts.

When you use the word "roller" in that context, I think that is wrong. I think Kirkham delivers only a frame with a body attached to Shelby.

I don't think Kirkham supplies anything else. Therefore there would be no suspension pieces, lights, wiring, gauges, wheels, tires, seats or anything that you would typically get with a roller. Shelby adds all of the other parts to build the car up to a "roller" and paints it too.

[ERA Chas]

1ntCobra,
You seem to write authoritatively about both manufacturers. Now David has not participated here nor a current Shelby member, but you have provided detailed information of the sort I would expect from them. You have generously provided a wealth of reference photos with comment about all of them.
My simple question is, what is the source of your apparent wealth of knowledge? In no way am I questioning the veracity of your comments.
Indeed, I applaud them and appreciate your sharing such detailed information. I'm just trying to assess the accuracy and some 'credential' would help to do that. Other than as Jamo stated, you have been a serious 'shopper' there is no gauge by your presence here of your experience. Other than a gallery full of SAAC event attendance.
My question is NOT an attempt to discredit nor in any other way cast a negative take on your information.
Just like to gauge how accurate the source might be given the absence of the company participants.
Thanks,

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

1ntCobra,
You seem to write authoritatively about both manufacturers. Now David has not participated here nor a current Shelby member, but you have provided detailed information of the sort I would expect from them. You have generously provided a wealth of reference photos with comment about all of them.
My simple question is, what is the source of your apparent wealth of knowledge? In no way am I questioning the veracity of your comments.
Indeed, I applaud them and appreciate your sharing such detailed information. I'm just trying to assess the accuracy and some 'credential' would help to do that. Other than as Jamo stated, you have been a serious 'shopper' there is no gauge by your presence here of your experience. Other than a gallery full of SAAC event attendance.
My question is NOT an attempt to discredit nor in any other way cast a negative take on your information.
Just like to gauge how accurate the source might be given the absence of the company participants.
Thanks,

ERA Chas,

A great deal of my apparent wealth of knowledge on this subject is based on following threads on CSX and Kirkham cars on clubcobra over the last few years. Hopefully my memory on past threads isn't too cloudy. I have been to both Vegas and Provo. I really do like the aluminum bodies cars. However whenever I get around to budgeting my next sports car, I doubt I'll be looking at Kirkham. Perhaps I should be paying more attention to the FFR threads.

I'm not sure I would expect David to pay attention a thread in the Shelby section. But I have noticed that the last person from the Shelby camp who paid any attention to clubcobra threads was Amy B. Perhaps the people at Shelby are not paying attention to this forum anymore.

I might also know a few things about original cobras having read a bunch of books on the subject as well as being a SAAC member since the early 1980s.

[rodneym]

Forgive me because I joined this discussion late but Kirkham is not limited to just supplying frames and bodies to SA. I'm not sure how complete Kirkham supplies them but ......

Maybe David would elaborate.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Forgive me because I joined this discussion late but Kirkham is not limited to just supplying frames and bodies to SA. I'm not sure how complete Kirkham supplies them but ......

Maybe David would elaborate.

Well, that is certainly possible.

But let's take a look at a couple pictures of CSX1021 mentioned earlier in this thread.





Those pictures appear to be CSX1021 in Vegas prior to assembly.

There was an earlier thread showing CSX1001 coming to Shelby from "AC" as a much more complete car, but later CSX1000 series cars were shipped as mostly frame/body to Shelby.

Considering that Shelby is capable of taking a pretty much bare frame/body from their new source in England and then building it up, that Shelby would be equally capable of taking a bare Kirkham frame/body and doing the same. Whether Vegas chooses to do that or get Kirkham to supply a bit more complete package than what Shelby asks for from their friends in England is certainly possible.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

ERA Chas,

A great deal of my apparent wealth of knowledge on this subject is based on following threads on CSX and Kirkham cars on clubcobra over the last few years.

I might also know a few things about original cobras having read a bunch of books on the subject as well as being a SAAC member since the early 1980s.

Thanks for your 'un-offended' response. That's exactly what I was hoping for. In fact, your background is similar to many of us who follow these cars and their history.

Thanks for sharing your observations.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

When you use the word "roller" in that context, I think that is wrong. I think Kirkham delivers only a frame with a body attached to Shelby.

I don't think Kirkham supplies anything else. Therefore there would be no suspension pieces, lights, wiring, gauges, wheels, tires, seats or anything that you would typically get with a roller. Shelby adds all of the other parts to build the car up to a "roller" and paints it too.

Agreed. What they get is more of the roller frame/body component... The rest is done in the shop in Vegas.