CSX3016 for sale through Exotic Classics, Syosset NY

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by LMH

Wow! Think of the mess it will be when the lawyers and the government get involved. And of course, the money it will take to straighten it out. The car has/had a California title
which shows the chassis number as 3016. There won't be any previous title history from CA as they don't keep records for more than ten years. ( I've been down this road already trying to find my bosses old CSX)

So what car is this one for sale?
Larry

A number of falsely identified cars have had their identity cleared up without much complication or expense. It comes down to how reasonable the owner is in simply removing the incorrect number from the car. The DMV history is irrelevant, that is not what determines ownership.

Yes, having the identity surfaced of the car that was used to make this one may be the best way for the owner to minimize loss. While there is no doubt a new replacement car wearing that number, there would still probably be more residual value in the Syosset car if it were conveyed as consisting of the majority of the chassis number that it started life as.

[labcars]

This is kinda like "When did you stop beating your wife?" Any acknowledgement or denial implies that at one time you were beating your wife. But, hey, I'm just dumb enough to take a stab at it!

Lots of words being used here, like "fake" and "fraud", etc., etc. The internet is a wonderful place. Whatever view one holds can be instantly corroborated by any number of sites/postings espousing the same view, without regard to facts.

I own (with two friends) this car, and was very much aware of all the speculation surrounding it when we bought it, particularly as its last owner wouldn't let anyone near the car to examine it. To say that he's eclectic is being kind. That said, since its purchase the car has been examined by several marque experts who, for the first time in over a decade have had the opportunity to crawl over and under the car in detail, and who have marveled at the existence of several comp car only bits/features which attest to the car's originality. Let's please remember that this was/is a race car. As a wise man once told me, you can own a perfect comp car without provenance, or a race car with stories, pick one. I've spoken to people who were at Watkins Glen when Bob Grossman put 3016 into a tree, as well as many others who point to specific elements of the car which mark it as "original". This car has been restored, although not to its Sebring livery, and been around for quite sometime.

Doubtless, DMXF knows more than me, as he seems well acquainted with the "original" owner who has somehow kept the remains of one of the twenty one comp cars buried in his back yard until recently to begin its restoration. This story is more believable because......?

I would invite anyone who knows the comp cars to inspect 3016 before forming such strident judgments. As in all things vehicular, the buyer should form their own view after the requisite diligence. No one is hiding the ball here, some preconceptions here notwithstanding.

Peace, out

[computerworks]

...for the first time in over a decade have had the opportunity to crawl over and under the car in detail, and who have marveled at the existence of several comp car only bits/features which attest to the car's originality.

I reviewed that car at SAAC-30 and did many photos of it.

I don't recall experiencing "marvel." I would be glad to examine it in it's current condition.

[rodneym]

I never knew of the controversy surrounding Anthony's Cobra

[DMXF]

labcars - I am sympathetic to your situation. The bottom line is significant evidence of the remains of the original car, along with affidavits and many witnesses provide overwhelming support for the unbroken history of it all the way back through Grossman. One long time Cobra aficionado in the Northeast even knew of the partial history for decades, but could never find where it went until the car was found and all the pieces came together.

The story provided to Ned years back that the car you own came from Grossman through Jim McCashin was debunked when Jim was contacted and said he never owned 3016. People involved with your car have said it was made from a car that used to be identified as 3106 until the real 3106 car/remains surfaced, at which point it was claimed that there was some kind of mistake and that your car was 3016. Lynn Park was even recently involved in communications where discussion of the real car being found was brought up and he had nothing to say. Just looking at configuration details of your car now doesn't reveal anything, as the people who have worked on it are quite knowledgeable and such attributes can easily be duplicated. A key aspect is that no valid traceability of any part or paperwork for your car has ever been shown to Cobra cognoscenti supporting the supposition that your car is related to the real 3016. I am sorry to hear that you have become involved in this situation and hope you can ultimately locate a buyer for what the car really is, which all indications and witnesses indicate is a late chassis number street 427 car.

[DMXF]

BTW, some have taken the comment of the original car having been "unearthed" literally. It was not buried under ground, the term was just used as per the second definition shown in most dictionaries: 2. Discover (something hidden, lost, or kept secret) by investigation or searching: "unearth the truth".

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by labcars

That said, since its purchase the car has been examined by several marque experts who, for the first time in over a decade have had the opportunity to crawl over and under the car in detail, and who have marveled at the existence of several comp car only bits/features which attest to the car's originality.

What are these "comp car only bits/features"?

I remember the owner of the Cobra restoration shop in Northern California that worked on my Kirkham pulled plenty of parts off the shelf to show me what original bits and pieces he could install on my car...for a price. And I took him up on some of it.

So, without knowing what these "bits/features" are, I'm not sure this means more than what's in the archives at SAAC HQ.

[1985 CCX]

What a show.....
Shame this car is what it is, still would fit nicely in my garage space.........

[1985 CCX]

"I am under the impression that the original CSX3016 is here in the northeast, albeit not whole, but in storage. That is not a secret to everyone, especially those who also know the story. How can the Mecum sell this car as "The Original CSX3016" if there is strong evidence of the contrary? Seems to me that there is a ton of credibility at issue for their company. I really feel for the buyer if the car sells for real Cobra cash. The car is awesome regardless but if the question of originality can't be substantiated the dupe cant continue, can it? Just not fair to the other owner and the potential buyer as its just not right. It's a shot across the bow for all original cars in my humble opinion"

[mtml427]

Seems like Cobras are beginning to follow suit with Ferraris.
I have been looking at 3060 (1). Another case of an overactive imagination.
Perhaps the bidding will reflect the authenticity of this car.

[Dwight]

I clicked on the ad and it's listed as "sold"

Does anyone know the price it sold for?

Dwight

[SunDude]

Originally Posted by Dwight

I clicked on the ad and it's listed as "sold"

Does anyone know the price it sold for?

Dwight

Just guessing, but maybe they did that since the car is scheduled to be offered at Mecum Kissimmee next month.

[D-CEL]

Knowing the history, i would buy this car and proudly call it 3016
Race cars get beat, crashed and rebuilt its the nature of the beast.
I was a little disappointed when Anthony told me he had sold it as I always enjoyed seeing it being driven.
FYI it is at Mecum in Florida now and scheduled to go off at 3:15 on sat the 25th
I would bet the selling price reflects it as the Real1.......

Jason

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Knowing the history, i would buy this car and proudly call it 3016
Race cars get beat, crashed and rebuilt its the nature of the beast.
I was a little disappointed when Anthony told me he had sold it as I always enjoyed seeing it being driven.
FYI it is at Mecum in Florida now and scheduled to go off at 3:15 on sat the 25th
I would bet the selling price reflects it as the Real1.......

Jason

Some cars have a very clear history...



While others have a not so clear history...



I read the registry entry a few times and I don't understand it.

CSX3016:
- May have been converted into a stock car with a 1930's ford body
- May have had some of its parts sold to somebody including the front cross member with the shock tower that has the serial number stamped into it, but that someone has lost track of where those parts are, and they could be in some relative's garage.

And then there is a CSX32xx or CSX33xx street car that was restored to appear to like an early competition cobra with a new shock tower stamped either CSX3106 or CSX3016.

Is the car up for auction one of the above 3 possibilities? Or is it something else?

Then this thread also mentions a car with a clear title. Is that the stock car? Is that the parts lost in somebody's relatives's garage? Or None of the above?