4000 series hub / upright / spidle options

[shelby racer]

I now understand that the front suspension was derived from the CAV gt40 and that it may have been used as a cost saving measure.... My cobra mechanic took a look at the uprights / spindles etc that I pulled off the passenger side and thinks that we can fix them so that I can get some more use out of them. The hub slipped right off the spindle without the need of a press. The bearings appear to be good, but the spindle nut needs to be tightened more. ALL The fasteners were loose. The billet aluminum mount was scarred and needs to be machined flat again. It is still a dumb design that we hope to improve on, but he thinks if we change (and upgrade) all the fasteners, use hardened washers, clean up the mating surfaces , use better loctite and torque then better (including the spindle nut) it should be safe to drive. I still have to bring the other side to my mechanic on Monday and we will continue to talk with shelby about any new parts / fixes / updates and may try to make new rotors and hats that are removable but I will hopefully be back on the road soon. There are going to be many thourough inspections coming up in this Shelby's life. Still very unhappy about yet another example of the poor build quality of this car and the fact that fasteners that were damaged when the uprights were changed were put back on the car when it was at SAI My mechanic brought up a good point today. With all the whining I do about this car and all the serious things that have been wrong with it, many people (including him, before he saw the pictures and doccumentation) may think that I am either making stuff up, just never satisfied, or a typical customer who doesn't know what he is doing (which is exactly what I was told by some one at SAI about my foot boxes, frame, motor mount and tranny mount - and then had to eat crow when they actually saw the car) - it is all real and I am just cursed. Thanks again for all the supprt and we shall see how this saga continues to develop.
John(;-)

[RICK LAKE]

shelby racer John I as sure your guy can fix it with a little work and some new parts. IMO NO!!!! The stuff was loose to start. This is not your fault. If one side is in question what about the other? They may give you problem about the removal of the parts from the car. I hope you have a video of it. When you get in touch with them, Suggest them they send one of there tech to check the problem. With 400 miles there should be little damage to the parts depending on how much play was with the bearings, hub, and spindle. I have a chassic cobra manual and this set looks NOTHING like the one in the book. If you keep this car for a couple of years, and this problem happens or something breaks, I doubt that CSI is going to stand behind this problem and blame it on you because of mileage and time gone by. They will use the Abuse and Race Issues. We have this problem with ZO6 owners. You get 1 free clutch and rearend assembly. After that you are on your own. People come in with 3K miles and the rear tires are bald. I don't know what happened to the tires, Bad Alignment?? We check this first. Up in the frames where people don't know where to look, we fine a 1/2 pound of tire rubber. Gee how did this happen?? Rep from GM comes down and said ABUSE, you pay. End of story. $5,000 dollars later and the car is on the road. We get blowers and twin turbos on these cars and they come in with a bad clutch and still get one for free. GM will work with you to a point. Fight them now for the new parts. This battle is already started. Finish it one way or the other but get new parts for the right side at least. Just my 2 cents John. They know they have a problem. They are trying to get out from under it without fixing it. Rick L.

[Power Surge]

A few things I'd like to mention based on what we've discussed here....

Pre-4750 series cars were sold as component vehicles, not rolling chassis. The assembly of the cars were done by the Shelby dealer they were ordered from (or in some cases in Las Vegas if the car was bought direct). There was no factory production assembly line like with the cars now built at HST and Hi-Tech. So the "quality" of the build lies within which person built it.

With the 4750 series cars, the very first few were built in South Africa at CAV. In the transition from CAV to HST, some cars were built in Vegas by Shelby to fill the gap. After that, cars are now built by HST in Mexico and Hi-Tech in South Africa, assembly line style.

Now, regardless of where the car was assembled, NO car from any of those build sources is 100% ready to go after you drop in a drivetrain. The cars are "put together", but the person/company that does the final transformation into a running vehicle is supposed to go through the entire car, AND, they are supposed to have you bring the car back in for a 500 mile "retighten". I know that Billy at HRE does this, as do most other Shelby dealers.

I do agree that that is not the best designed upright solution, but it obviously works when adjusted and tightened properly, as you are not the only one with that setup. I would not be blaming Shelby themselves, as much as I'd be blaming whomever did the final assembly of the car, as it was THEIR responsibility for that aspect of the car to be tight (they should have done the final alignment on it after all).

Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

A few things I'd like to mention based on what we've discussed here....

Now, regardless of where the car was assembled, NO car from any of those build sources is 100% ready to go after you drop in a drivetrain. The cars are "put together", but the person/company that does the final transformation into a running vehicle is supposed to go through the entire car, AND, they are supposed to have you bring the car back in for a 500 mile "retighten". I know that Billy at HRE does this, as do most other Shelby dealers.


I do agree that that is not the best designed upright solution, but it obviously works when adjusted and tightened properly, as you are not the only one with that setup. I would not be blaming Shelby themselves, as much as I'd be blaming whomever did the final assembly of the car, as it was THEIR responsibility for that aspect of the car to be tight (they should have done the final alignment on it after all).

Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

Based on what I was told by Shelby and my dealer, I was led to believe that the car would be ready with the addition of the drive train and associated parts. I was also told by my dealer when I questioned them as to what I was paying them for since they offered no support before or during the sale, they claimed that it was THEIR responsability to check the car from bumper to bumper when they got it from Las Vegas and before it was handed over to me. When I got the car, the first thing I saw was that the fuel filler hose was not connected and that the hose clamps were loose and just flopping around. When I called them (and also asked why not all the parts had been delivered and installed as promised), their attitude was "oh well" go ahead and sue us. Hmmm - lots of money time and aggrevation for stuff that seemed relatively minor. When I complained to Shelby - all I got from the company was that they are their biggest dealer and that the sell more cars for them than anyone else. Sorry - not anything we can do for you. When I brought my car ) at my time, expense and inconvience they did me a "favor" and fixed the frame and foot box and replaced the up rights (because they knew the ones on the car were defective - although I did not know that yet) and said that they had looked the car over and that I should not have any other problems. I am willing to work on the car and with the the company to resolve small issues, but I have had MULTIPLE major problems - and it keeps happening as new things show up on a car that has been back to vegas and checked. I know from private conversations that I am not they only one with significant issues - and some people have had to get even more help than I have. I there fore STRONGLY disagree that it was my responabaility to check everyone else's work - or the car was GROSSLY misrepresented. I am an average guy who can spin a wrench and cobras can be a little tricky, but I paid waaay more for this car because it was a csx and was represented in a manner contrary to what has turned out to be reality.


I again strongly disagree with your opinion (besides the facts that there are multiple people who had had major issues with their suspension - and many other parts of the car - including more than one suspension failure / breakage). Beakage even after it had been "fixed" by SAI. One of the things that I have discovered that is also really rubbing me the wrong way is that the nylock nut connecting the upright to the upper ball joint was crushed and the nylon retainer was exposed. I assume it was damaged when they removed the nut to replace the upright (by hammering on it...... which scares me that that is obviously what happened by looking at it) which is bad enough, but that any person working on a critical component on a car could reuse a damaged fastener that cost pennies is incomprehensible to me (although I get it that they were just lazy / sloppy). Says a lot about the quality and pride in work of who ever did it. "500 mile service" "alignment" - they could not even be bothered to make sure it was SAFE or deliver everything promised in the contract. I wonder why they are no longer a dealer.

[I}
Now what? I have been contacted by people who SAI has done better support than what I have received May be I should find out how they convinced SAI to step up to the plate? I have a $100,000 car that has had major problems and I don't trust. What is going to happen next? I can't sell it due to its problems. What happens when the next big defect rears its ugly head and I have 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 miles. I bought the car and hoped to never have to sell it. It has taken me so long to get it going mainly due to problems with the car and financial constraints. I maxed myself out financially (I don't know if other csx owners did not feel the burden of the cost of their car as much as I did) with this car. Now I am unemployed and it is broken again through another congenital birth defect.[i]

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

Based on what I was told by Shelby and my dealer, I was led to believe that the car would be ready with the addition of the drive train and associated parts. I was also told by my dealer when I questioned them as to what I was paying them for since they offered no support before or during the sale, they claimed that it was THEIR responsability to check the car from bumper to bumper when they got it from Las Vegas and before it was handed over to me. When I got the car, the first thing I saw was that the fuel filler hose was not connected and that the hose clamps were loose and just flopping around. When I called them (and also asked why not all the parts had been delivered and installed as promised), their attitude was "oh well" go ahead and sue us. Hmmm - lots of money time and aggrevation for stuff that seemed relatively minor. When I complained to Shelby - all I got from the company was that they are their biggest dealer and that the sell more cars for them than anyone else. Sorry - not anything we can do for you. When I brought my car ) at my time, expense and inconvience they did me a "favor" and fixed the frame and foot box and replaced the up rights (because they knew the ones on the car were defective - although I did not know that yet) and said that they had looked the car over and that I should not have any other problems. I am willing to work on the car and with the the company to resolve small issues, but I have had MULTIPLE major problems - and it keeps happening as new things show up on a car that has been back to vegas and checked. I know from private conversations that I am not they only one with significant issues - and some people have had to get even more help than I have. I there fore STRONGLY disagree that it was my responabaility to check everyone else's work - or the car was GROSSLY misrepresented. I am an average guy who can spin a wrench and cobras can be a little tricky, but I paid waaay more for this car because it was a csx and was represented in a manner contrary to what has turned out to be reality.


I again strongly disagree with your opinion (besides the facts that there are multiple people who had had major issues with their suspension - and many other parts of the car - including more than one suspension failure / breakage). Beakage even after it had been "fixed" by SAI. One of the things that I have discovered that is also really rubbing me the wrong way is that the nylock nut connecting the upright to the upper ball joint was crushed and the nylon retainer was exposed. I assume it was damaged when they removed the nut to replace the upright (by hammering on it...... which scares me that that is obviously what happened by looking at it) which is bad enough, but that any person working on a critical component on a car could reuse a damaged fastener that cost pennies is incomprehensible to me (although I get it that they were just lazy / sloppy). Says a lot about the quality and pride in work of who ever did it. "500 mile service" "alignment" - they could not even be bothered to make sure it was SAFE or deliver everything promised in the contract. I wonder why they are no longer a dealer.

[I}
Now what? I have been contacted by people who SAI has done better support than what I have received May be I should find out how they convinced SAI to step up to the plate? I have a $100,000 car that has had major problems and I don't trust. What is going to happen next? I can't sell it due to its problems. What happens when the next big defect rears its ugly head and I have 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 miles. I bought the car and hoped to never have to sell it. It has taken me so long to get it going mainly due to problems with the car and financial constraints. I maxed myself out financially (I don't know if other csx owners did not feel the burden of the cost of their car as much as I did) with this car. Now I am unemployed and it is broken again through another congenital birth defect.[i]

I never said it was your responsibility to check over the car. But part of my point was that you should expect problems with these cars, as they are far from bulletproof.

Also, I am in no way defending Shelby. Their customer service and support is legendary for being one of the worst in the biz. It's only until recent that they have started to swing things around. Notice I said started. That means there are still plenty of people on the short end of customer service, and unfortunately you are one of them.

From the sound of your story, your biggest beef is your dealer. It's unfortunate that they were so bad, and no longer even support the cars. I do agree that Shelby is partially responsible for making sure their dealers are top notch, but it also sounds to me like you might have been able to do more homework on who you were dealing with and what you were paying for before shelling out your hard earned dollars.

As for being an unemployed Cobra owner with no money, join the club. I've been there, and for all purposes I am still there, as I am now just barely paying my monthly bills as they come. If something broke on my Cobra right now, it would sit until I could afford to fix it.

Don't get me wrong John.... I am on your side. I want to see you in your car having fun. If you were local I'd be helping you with it. But the reality is that your dealer is gone and Shelby isn't going to stop what they are doing and fix your car for free.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I never said it was your responsibility to check over the car. But part of my point was that you should expect problems with these cars, as they are far from bulletproof.

From the sound of your story, your biggest beef is your dealer. It's unfortunate that they were so bad, and no longer even support the cars. I do agree that Shelby is partially responsible for making sure their dealers are top notch, but it also sounds to me like you might have been able to do more homework on who you were dealing with and what you were paying for before shelling out your hard earned dollars.

Don't get me wrong John.... I am on your side. I want to see you in your car having fun. If you were local I'd be helping you with it. But the reality is that your dealer is gone and Shelby isn't going to stop what they are doing and fix your car for free.

Thanks again for the support. I have had to work on cars a lot. As I said in one of my posts - those who know me all agree that I have the worst luck with cars. It is my lot in life and one of the reasons I have not gone ballastic over this car.

What further research do you think was required?? I spoke with Gary Patterson @ SAI and figured out exactly what I wanted before ever contacting XKs Unlimited. I told Gary who I was going through and was told that they were good (the biggest Shelby dealer in the US). I looked at their sales literature and read the contract. In the two years it took to build my car, they were never helpful (I always had to call SAI to find out what was going on with my car). They changed the terms of the contract when they delivered my car and didn't deliver on goods or services promised. None of these things could have been foretold from the sources I consulted. Even though I hate them, they are small peanuts relative to getting a car that had to have the frame rebuilt and a suspension that is failing. When the frame screw up was discovered, it cost me money to get it fixed even though it was still in warentee. I am not even complaining that my differential has leaked since the first time it turned a wheel and was told, get 300 miles on to see if the seals will re-swell. I have a new diff and am going to have to pay someone for an R&R.