WANTED: Early history

[V8Healey]

I'm currently researching for a book about early sports cars with owner-installed V8 engines.

I have heard that Shelby originally wanted to use the Austin Healey and drop in the popular Chevy V8, but couldn't get either company interested in the concept.

Does anyone out there know the story of the Cobra's early orgins? What is known about these really early efforts to build a car?

If you have a reference for any info you post or email me, please let me know.

Thanks!

[Excaliber]

While there is some substance to the Healey with a Chevy engine story I think it is misleading to state it exactly like that.

Shelby looked at a lot of potential cars for his master plan of building a "light weight" American V8 race car. Oldsmobile was also considered as an engine option, which indeed he DID use in the Series One. It was Healey himself that wasn't interested, but in the end I'm not so sure Shelby would have gone that way anyway.

While he was considering a LOT of options I'm sure he went through a LOT of "what if's".

Wasn't it an MGT-C or D that Shelby raced very early in his career with an American V-8? Perhaps a Ford FLAT HEAD V-8? That would have been a logical choice in the early 50's as the Ford flat head was the "hot rod motor" at that time.

,,,and of course the infamous Buick powered "Old Yeller". Shelby wasn't the first with a light weight V8 powered car, but he certainly was the most successful with that formula.

[V8Healey]

Shelby drove 'ol Yaller for Max Blachowski sometime around 1957, well before his Cobra-building days.

Hot Rod magazine published an article on Max Blachowski's Chevy-powered Austin Healey in June of 1956.

I'm sure Shelby was well aware of Max's Healey. Was Max the first to come up with the idea of stuffing a big V8 into a lightweight British sportscar? I don't know... maybe someone out there does.

Would you say that Shelby "borrowed" Max's idea?

[What'saCobra?]

Incoming! Duck!

[Cal Metal]

For one, Old Yeller II, which Shelby drove, as did Bobby Drake, Dan Gurney, and Bob Bondurant, was not an English car but, rather, a home made concoction from Max Balchowsky's garage in So. Cal.

There are many, many stories of American Iron being stuffed in home built chassis. Some were very sophisticated like the Scarab, but there were many inexpensive, less sophisticated cars that could fill an entire page. There is even a book which give attribution to all of these entitled: American Road Race Specials.

The Echidnas, BoCars, Morgans, Devins, Sorrell, Farrellac, Sadler to name a few. The list goes on and on.

[V8Healey]

Yes, you are correct. Old Yeller was a homebuilt car, chassis & all.

However, the Healey that Blachowski dropped a Chevy V8 into was very much a small, lightweight (1/2 aluminum body) British roadster. And he did it in early 1956, a year before Shelby drove his "Old Yeller" and nearly seven years before Shelby did the same thing with the AC.

There also was a little Italian car called the Siata that was built with Fiat running gear in the 1950's. A popular conversion for American Siata owners in the mid 1950's was to swap the drivetrain for an American V8.

I've talked to several people who performed similar conversions before Shelby decided to try it himself. Heck, one guy even built a big-block Oldsmobile-powered Healey in 1957...

Admittedly, Shelby took the idea and ran with it, having more success than anyone else.

What I'm trying to find out is what car & motor combos Shelby considered before he discovered AC & the Ford smallblock. There is almost nothing out there about his thought process & everything I have read makes it seem like he came up with the original concept himself.

Isn't there a more detailed version of the Cobra's origins out there in one of the many Cobra books?

[crillyiv]

Interesting topic. Sorry I can't shed any light on it.

btw, Welcome to CC V8Healey. I tried the link in your sig. and on your profile, but this is what came up:


Forbidden
You don't have permission to access / on this server.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.barbedwireborder.com Port 80

[mrmustang]

First, welcome to Club Cobra.....

There is plenty of information available at your local "Borders" book store on this subject.
AC Cobra put out by Brookland Books
Cobra by Beki Adam
Shelby American Race History by Dave Friedman
AC Cobra: The Truth Behind the Anglo-American Legend by Rinsey Mills

And a host of others that all you need to do is go down and see what is on the shelf there.

Now, with that said, can I ask how someone who works for the Dept of Homeland Security can also write books on the side???? isn't that a conflict of interest????


Sincerely,

Bill S.

[Excaliber]

Could you say that Shelby borrowed the idea from Max? I don't think so, the recipe was a well known "hot rodding" trick that want WAY back in time. You could also say Max borrowed the idea!

Shelbys thought process' would of course be influenced by those around him, so WHO were these people and WHAT were THEY doing?

1952, it was an MG-TC that Shelby first raced, I don't know what motor. Shortly after that it was an Allard with a Caddillac engine, a popluar "swap" by many "back in the day".

In 1954 Shelby went to Europe to BUY an Aston Martin, while there he was talked into driving for the Aston "team". Thus becoming one of the worlds FIRST proffessional drivers! He also observed first hand how various speciallty race cars were produced there.

America didn't HAVE a light weight car on the order of the European "sports cars". Romor has it he told Ferrari he would be back with an American powered car to "whip his a$$". By 1956 Shelby opened his "sports car" dealership in Texas.

So WHO were these people? Around 1959 he opened a Goodyear tire store in the back of (the now famous) Dean Moons shop. Shelby was hanging with the movers and shakers of the automotive scene, both in Europe and the States. Indeed HE was a mover and shaker himself.

It was the "Shelby Performance Driving School" that really opened the doors (with money) to begin development of his race car.

When Scarab closed down Shelby rented the facilities, Venice, Calif. It was HERE he met Phil Remington, who had designed the last Scarab, a rear engine Olds powered car. Perhaps THIS is where Shelby got the Oldsmobile connection?

Did Shelby KNOW it would be an AC sports car with a Ford V8 when he opened the Venice facility? Or was the idea still developing at that time? I have no doubt the car WAS going to be European.

The Austin Healey perhaps? I think it would have been a bad choice myself. Cars such as Aston and Masseratti had more potential. Healey DID have an excellent reputation at the time however.

Former owner 1962 Austin Healey Mark II (with original engine).

I could have EASILY missed some important details or have some facts confused, it IS difficult nailing down Shelbys history. Feel free to correct where needed, or where views differ!

[What'saCobra?]

Nicely done, EX.

[LURK]

Here's a Healy that Carroll Shelby drove:



Crashed on day 2 of the Pan American Road Race, Oaxaca, Mexico- November 20, 1954

-John

[Power Surge]

From what I've always seen and heard, Shelby approached Chevy for a small block originally, but when Duntov (or whatever that Corvette dude's name was) caught wind of it, they quickly axed Chevy's invovlement in Shelby's car. After that, Shelby got connected with Ford for the thinwall 260 V8.

That's about all I know. If Shelby was looking at a car before the Ace, I have no idea.

[nikbj68]

Originally posted by Excaliber


......When Scarab closed down Shelby rented the facilities, Venice, Calif. .........Did Shelby KNOW it would be an AC sports car with a Ford V8 when he opened the Venice facility? Or was the idea still developing at that time?

I thought Shelby was well into the swing of the Cobra production before moving to the Venice building, doing so as he had 'outgrown' Moons` workshop.
p.s. I wouldn`t hunt for the Beki Adam Cobra book unless you want to see nice pictures..... There`s much better info in this forum(and, of course, not to forget ClubCobra regular Trevor Legate`s "Cobra- The Real Thing".)
Good luck with the book, Healey.

[Goober]

Sal, you are correct. He did go to Chevy and they pulled the plug.
The first engine that Ford discussed with Carroll was the 221. By the time the deal was done, it had grown into the 260.
The engine that powered Ol Yeller and Max was a Buick nailhead.

Just some useless info

Mark

[V8Healey]

I really appreciate the info! I'll start looking into the few Cobra books that I've seen around & hopefully be able to come up with something that will fit with my subject. I planned to have 1 page in the book dedicated to Shelby & the Cobra's early start, since many of the cars I am featuring were built very similarly.

As for my website link, it isn't active yet because I've been waiting for my current book's artwork to be finished. Well, it's done, and the website will be up & running by the end of the week. I'll have a similar website to promote my auto book when it is ready, and I'll post a notice here.

Hopefully a few of you Cobra guys will think a book on early engine-swap specials is interesting! Anyone who starts looking at some of these early-built cars cannot help but be impressed! Especially a Cobra-enthusiest!

[Excaliber]

Shelby was using the back of Moons shop for his Goodyear tire dealership. Moon also was a tire dealer, NOT Goodyear (I forget which brand) and that was a big conflict.

Did Shelby start building any cars at Moons shop?

I'm fuzzy on the time line between the Moon location and the Venice location. Had Shelby been to AC in England BEFORE he rented the Venice location?

V8
The early hot rodders didn't have a lot of money, and hot rodding back then was more about making it go than making it show. Primer for paint was "real", engine swaps of some strange variety were the norm. Today there called "Rat Rods" and very popular right now. I'd rather see a "REAL" Hot Rod with a Caddy motor perhaps, "Moonies" for hub caps and still in primer than some "profesional" to the Nth degree "perfect" Hot Rod built for TV!

Your book sounds very timely in that regard, should be interesting reading! Even in the 60's the Hot Rodders I hung with didn't have a lot of money, but "we" made some cool rides. Like the Hemi engine in a 1951 Ford, that was cool (and for SURE a Rat Rod).

[Karl Bebout]

V8, You might want to try to find "The Cobra Story, A Man, His Dream, His Automobile" written by CS back in 1965. Library of Congress # 65-25814, printed by Trident Press. My wife got me a copy of it a couple years ago off the internet. Not necessarily a good read, but might have some information you are looking for.

[Blas]

There is a car & driver magazine from 1963 I think (I have it at home) Where a guy dropped a chevy engine into an AC Ace and drove it arounf SF California - It was a letter and photo and name in the front "Letters" part of the magazine.......
Maybe thats where the the idea came from.......
He also referred to it as a "Mongoose" ...
I can post a copy if you PM me.......