351W, 390, or 428, which one?

[CobraLaw]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum. I have been reading, researching, and dreaming about getting a Cobra. This forum is great. I love the commentary, chiding, and camaraderie of the members.

I am planning on buying a SPF this winter. I fell in love with a burgundy one at Hillbank Motor Cars (Costa Mesa, CA ) and cried when they sold it. The only problem I am having is picking an engine. The 351W just doesn't give me warm fuzzies, a 427 is out of my budget, but I do have a 1964 Thunderbird in the driveway that has a 4V 390 in it. Because I live in California, and am in a Smog check area, I am leaning towards the 390. Reasons for using the 390: 1- it makes good Horsepower and torque without compromising reliability, 2- lets me follow 1964 smog rules, 3- and it was free. But I have noticed that there are few 390's in Cobras. Out of all the all the SPF owners listed at their home page I only saw one 390.

I didn't think picking an engine would be this hard, but the soul of the beast is the motor. Yea, I can get a screaming 351W but it looks kinda small in the engine bay (those chrome 427 valve covers look like a broad shouldered brut). But I don't want an underachieving BB either.

I will be using the car as a daily driver and Fwy cruiser. I would like to be able to roll on the throttle and walk away from other drivers. So I am looking for a power range from off idle to say, 5,000 rpm.

My questions are: Am I missing something? Why are there not more 390's in Cobras? Is it waste of money to stroke the 390 to a 410 (using a 428 crank)? Should I just get a 428PI instead (since some did come with that engine)?

What's the general opinion on this matter? Any comments will be appreciated.

Lawrence

[Q]

Do a search for jwoodard on the board. He has a 390 in his.

[2fast]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

"I don't want an underachieving BB either. "

And is it really free? Why not sell the Tbird and use the money to buy a better motor?

[Bud Man]

A properly built/tuned 390 will keep up with anything you are going to encounter on the highway, and then some...

If its a sound block, my advice is to stroke it, slap a set of Edelbrock aluminum heads on it and put it in the car. You lose bragging rights, and thats about all. From the engine compartment, you can't tell the difference. Later, if you want to upgrade to a 427 or 428, you can, as its a direct swap.

My .02 cents worth.

Bud

[Jack21]

I tend to go along with Bud Man on this.

I'm a 351W fan myself, and a 351 can be easily stroked to 393 and put out as much power as the 390FE with substantially less weight.

That being said, as Bud Man said, bolt a set of decent breathing and lightweight Edelbrock aluminum heads and intake on the FE and it will roll. A real plus would be a good retrofit hydraulic roller cam. The right chrome valve covers would make it look really authentic.

The main reason, however, in your situation is that T-Bird motor is a '64, and you've got the rest of the car, with papers, to prove it. That makes for a minimum amount of registration and emissions hassles in a place like California.

[hound dog]

I still remember the days when the 390 fords would be eaten alive by a good running 250hp/327 chevy. If you really want to use it, I'd get a good set of heads, strong cam, and good hi-perf induction system to go with that 390. If you rebuild it right the 390 will be a good strong running engine, but you will have to rework it in order to make yourself happy!

[marmmansa]

today out at the long island cobra run I saw a guy with a spo 351 385hrsp. crate motor run a 12.07 quarter mile with 295 50 15 street tires and it was his first time at a track.keep this in mind when you choose your motor.

[Specialk]

I've noticed also that not many people choose a 390 for a Cobra project. The Edelbrock Performer RPM package makes more HP than most people are used to. Plus you can make it look like a Side Oiler if detailed correctly

[btsai]

specialk,

Can you elaborate on what it would take to
have it look like a side oiler? I've always
been partial to those pent roof valve covers...

Ben

[Specialk]

Ben,

Duplicating the sideoiler oil rail or the screw in freeze plugs would be tough, but you could use an entire 427 top end. Perogie Ent. once had a 390 that they drilled for side oiler bolts. Top it with the pentroof covers and a turkey pan, and I think it would look nice. You would never be able to fool a S.O. nut like Turk, but you could get the look. I guess it all depends on how much money you want to throw at it.

Originally posted by btsai
specialk,

Can you elaborate on what it would take to
have it look like a side oiler? I've always
been partial to those pent roof valve covers...

Ben

[btsai]

Thanks, K.

Turk -- a "nut"? I thought he was the sane one.

[CobraLaw]

Thanks guys!

I see I have a lot more homework to do! The only thing holding me up from buying a Cobra is choosing the engine. Damn, I wish it wasn't so hard to pick a motor! I can't stand the anticipation!

Well, life cant be too bad if all I have to worry about is what engine is going in my Cobra!

Thanks again for your help.

Lawrence

[Daniel Jones]

>My questions are: Am I missing something? Why are there not more 390's in
>Cobras? Is it waste of money to stroke the 390 to a 410 (using a 428 crank)?
>Should I just get a 428PI instead (since some did come with that engine)?

Good question. A friend of mine is an engine builder and has had several
people ask him for quotes for building 427's or 428's for their kit Cobras.
He usually informs them of the cost of building genuine 427's and suggests
a stroker 390 FE or 391 FT as a cheaper, look-a-like, alterative. He says
the usual response is, that if they can't put a real 427 side oiler in it,
they say they'll just put a 350 Chevy in it. Weird.

>I didn't think picking an engine would be this hard, but the soul of the beast
>is the motor. Yea, I can get a screaming 351W but it looks kinda small in the
>engine bay (those chrome 427 valve covers look like a broad shouldered brut).
>But I don't want an underachieving BB either.

Dave recently built a 443 FE stroker for a friend's Mustang. They originally
tried to save a cracked 428 passenger car block but it leaked, so they switched
to an FT block. The FT is a truck version of the FE with thicker main webs and
cylinder walls. Using a stroked 390 crank, he built the short block for around
$1800. Add $1100 Edelbrock aluminum heads, the intake manifold and valve
covers of your choice, and you can have a good looking/running FE for less than
the cost of a typical 351W. Dave reports, with an aluminum intake manifold
and heads, the 443 stroker weighs about the same as a 351W or 351C. Dave has
a web page at:

http://angelfire.com/ar/dw42/index.htm

and the 443 FE stroker is covered at:

http://members.tripod.com/lyc_42/443/443.htm

Dave's also building a 456 FE for a customer. You may want to drop him an
email at the address listed on his web page. He's been having some problems
with that address. If it doesn't work, I can send you his personal email
address.

>Can you elaborate on what it would take to have it look like a side oiler?
>I've always been partial to those pent roof valve covers...

Externally, all the FE's and FT's are basically similar (excepting the exotica
like the tunnel ports and SOHC's). With proper valve covers, few will know
the difference. My dad used to pass off his 427 side oiler stroker (454 cubes)
as a 428CJ all the time. If you really want to fool the lookers, you can epoxy
bolt heads to the block to replicate the cross-bolted 427 look.

Dan Jones

[GASKETBOY]

Lawrence,

Under the hood of my Hi-Tech sits a 390 - bought it re-sale. Like many, I was not originally thrilled at the prospect of this engine but have grown to really appreciate it.

The engine was rebuilt and has the aluminum Edelbrock heads, Performer RPM intake, a Comp Cam with specs slightly smaller than the RPM cam, and it is now being fitted with a complete MSD ignition.

I can tell you from firsthand experience that the car has plenty of power for street use. Your original post said "daily driver and fwy power" This combo offers that up to your self-imposed 5,000rpm limit. If you find that you need more power or cubes later, as others have offered, you have the fittings for a larger FE swap. No changes to mounts, bellhousing, headers, etc.

Its hard to beat free, you have a good starting point. Edelbrock offers some nice pieces for this engine and it looks like it belongs in there when equipped with pent roof valve covers and a turkey pan. All of which can be added over time. That is one of the fun parts of Cobra ownership - adding toys.

Like picking a color and asking for advice you will get as many opinions as respondants. Just thought I would offer my $.02.

Jeff

[JAM1775]

I agree with houndog and other 351W fans.
But to each his own.

[josborne]

I think I might just have seen that Burgundy Cobra this weekend. A nice one from HOC was at the Aladdin hotel and casino in Vegas, perched on top of a row of slot machines.... Needless to say, my dollars didn't pay off with a new Cobra in my garage. But you can't fault a guy for trying. Hardly a better thing to win....

[marmmansa]

The 351W will out perform most big blocks. Also after owning my 393 custom built stroker and putting 650 miles on it I can not Imagine owning a big block and stoping for gas at every corner as it is the stoker motor drinks gas like crazy.Keep in mind these cars only way 2500 lbs. with motor and trans.After all it was the 289 cars that won most of the races back in the day.Buy kit car magizine and look at the Oltoffs cars all with small blocks and always winning and I mean always.Bob and Dennis Oltoff always use small blocks for you can make more power than you need and have a light car to boot.


PS.351W parts are alot easier to get and a huge selection of them compared to a 390fe

[wadesdad]

Sign below to join the less than popular motor choice club. I'm building up a 351M/400 which really brings whiners out of the woodwork. Its based on a sound, cheap motor with some mild cams, intake etc. available. Petersen (HOT ROD etc.) Publications published a motor build-up special and featured this motor.
375 lb-ft torque @ 2,000 RPM 456 lb-ft torque @ 4,400 RPM -
382 hp. All for $2,000 and a look very similar to 351's. (The block is only an inch taller).

Remember, it's not a diesel!
Run what YOU like. It's YOUR car. You'll probably be having too much fun to switch it out later anyway.

Good luck!

[Christian]

We have considerable experience in building and suppyling the 351W , 351W Stroker or the 390's which we are building at this time. Give us a call at 1-800-344-7009 . Engine Factory
www.autoengines.com