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05-11-2010, 10:36 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fairfield,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: CRII with a Stroked Windsor
Posts: 976
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Not Ranked
Brake behaviour modification
So I am seeking ways to improve my braking power. I currently have the traditional hot rod style brake setup up front with 11" rotors, GM metric calipers and drums in the rear on my 8.8 rear end. I notice when I first press the brakes I get braking but not as much as when I release the brake pedal and hit it again. Is this a matter of not enough vacuum or do I need to bleed the brakes again? Also other options for improved braking with out breaking the bank. No pun intended..  |
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05-11-2010, 12:41 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs,
CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,433
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Not Ranked
Pumping the pedal to get pressure usually means air in the system. Usually.
The first step to improving the brakes is better pads. You'de be amazed what that can do.
The second step is to improve the pedal ratio. Going from 6.5 to 7.0 can make a large differance.
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05-11-2010, 02:12 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fairfield,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: CRII with a Stroked Windsor
Posts: 976
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Not Ranked
Yeah.. I am going to try bleeding the brakes this coming weekend and see what that yields. Maybe some air is in there. I hate bleeding brakes.. so time consuming sometimes.
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05-11-2010, 03:23 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Covington,
wa
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance # 532, 466 BB, 560HP
Posts: 3,027
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastmustang
Yeah.. I am going to try bleeding the brakes this coming weekend and see what that yields. Maybe some air is in there. I hate bleeding brakes.. so time consuming sometimes.
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Invest in something like this. It's money well spent.
http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/...rrivals&page=1
__________________
John Hall
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05-11-2010, 03:34 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs,
CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,433
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastmustang
Yeah.. I am going to try bleeding the brakes this coming weekend and see what that yields. Maybe some air is in there. I hate bleeding brakes.. so time consuming sometimes.
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I installed Russell Speed Bleeders on all 8 ports (Wilwoods). Now it takes no time at all the bleed them by myself. |
05-11-2010, 03:58 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fairfield,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: CRII with a Stroked Windsor
Posts: 976
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Not Ranked
Handy ideas.. Ill have to order one of those compressor fed bleeding tanks.. Looks handy for sure.
Thanks guys.
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05-11-2010, 05:46 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Daly city,
ca
Cobra Make, Engine: classic roadster,408cu
Posts: 212
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Not Ranked
Bobcowan, do you have to have bleeders on all 8 ports or just 4 ? the tech at willwood told me that you only have to bleed the highst port? ...WD
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05-11-2010, 11:35 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs,
CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,433
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Not Ranked
Right, you only bleed the top ports. The calipers are meant to be universal mounting, so each caliper has 4 forts. That's 16 per car. But you only bleed out of the top ones, because that's where the air is. That means 8 ports.
I connect a simple tube and bottle, open the port, pump the brake pedal about 8 times, then move on to the next one. I do front and rear at the same time so I get a full pedal stroke. Doesn't take long at all.
I had a vacuum brake bleeder for a while. But I could never get results I was happy with.
I have seen these pressure bleeders. I might either buy one or make one. What takes me the longest is refilling the MC 4 times. A pressure brake bleeder woule eliminate that.
Last edited by bobcowan; 05-11-2010 at 11:41 PM..
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05-12-2010, 10:44 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edinburg,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrison, All aluminum small block ford.
Posts: 436
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Not Ranked
Check your drum brakes in the rear. If the air gap is too large alot of braking power is expended by getting the shoes out to the drum.
Just a thought.
__________________
" If it wont break em loose in 3rd gear, it aint enough power "
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05-12-2010, 11:11 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Northern VA,
VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters
Posts: 2,765
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Not Ranked
Very typically, if you pump the brakes and the pedal comes up and is harder, it is an internal leak within the master cylinder. I think Rosco just had a similar problem. I told him the same thing along with other feedback from other folks here. Not sure if he fixed his problem, but if he did, maybe he can chime in. It may not be air at all, but an internal leak.
.
__________________
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO WORRY ABOUT GOOD GAS MILEAGE
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Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
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05-12-2010, 03:55 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Spring Grove,
IL
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley Cobra Kit -428 Fe Built by Clayton Racing Engines
Posts: 519
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Not Ranked
CobraED is right ,I had the same problem for sometime until I replaced the master cylinders with new Wildwoods, it was like night and day difference. When we pulled the old ones apart , you could see they where shot and where leaking internally.
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05-12-2010, 08:14 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Golden Isles,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: Butler Cobra. 350 Chevy Engine, blueprinted, heads cc'd, ported, polished, manifolds matched, big valves, 1.6 roller rockers, TB Injected, mild cam, MSD crank trigger electronic ignition. TKO-600 transmission. XKE Jaguar rear. IFS by Fast Cars
Posts: 555
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Not Ranked
Also, if your master cylinder/reservoir is located below the height of the brake cylinders, the fluid can, and will drain back to the master cylinder retracting the pistons, thus increasing the gap between pistons/pads & rotors. So first pump you fill the gap and second pump you build full pressure.
If your condition is as above you can do one of two things.
1: change the master cylinder to one with a remote reservoir and mount the reservoir as high as you can in a convenient location. See my photo album.
2: You can put pressure residual valves in the brake lines as close to the master as possible. These little valves will maintain about 2psi pressure in the lines. In essence keeping the fluid where it should be, in the caliper.
If you have air in system you will have spongy pedal syndrome all the time.
Arthur
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