Front Brakes

[hford]

I'm getting ready to purchase front brakes for an E-M car. Was wondering if anyone out there had any experience with the Wilwood medium duty kit for this? It uses Mustang ll spindles. Kit number is WIL-140-1013. Just curious if this is enough brakes for this car seeing as how this is a solid, non-vented rotor. Appreciate any information.

[RACER X #99]

Go for the largest rotors and calipers you can fit inside your wheels. You got a heavy motor and you need good brakes. When it cames to brakes bigger is better.
RD

[jopper]

I have the custom tubular front suspension on my EM which uses the Mustang II spindle with the 11" Granada rotor. The brakes were scary bad when I first finished the car. No stopping power at all. I switched my Tilton master cylinders from 3/4" to 5/8" which seemed to make a small improvement. I recently changed my pads to a carbon metallic type from a company called Carbotec. The difference was like day and night. I would say my brakes at least doubled in stopping power. Bob at EM also recommends using pads from Performance Friction. If you use the Wilwood setup with the Carbotec or Performance Friction pad you should have great brakes. According to Carbotec, their pads are capable to about 800 degrees before any fading is noticable.

[Jack21]

Just went through that exercise. Since car is on street, can offer some comment.

MII spindle is a limiting factor but not enough to keep you from putting good brakes on the car.

Is car mostly for street driving, or will you be racing it?

Are you using 15" wheels or 17"?

I used '83 up Mustang rear disk brake conversion from Ford SVO. They are 10" rear rotors that I had drilled from 4 lug to 5 lug. The kit also included the correct master cylinder and proportioning valve. For 15" wheels, you're pretty much limited to the 11" '75 - '80 Grenada which is no slouch. Typical front calipers are '78 - '83 mid size GM. Somewhat better is the SSB 4 piston caliper using the same rotor. This is the setup I have, and the car stops on a dime.

That being said, I then changed from 15" to 17" wheels with dramatic improvement. Had I to do all over again, I'd have used Baer brakes with 13" rotors in front, 11 1/2 " rotors in back. Similar to Mustang R setup, but will fit on MII spindle. Not sure about Wildwood for street brakes, but Baer Claws are for serious hi perf street, as well as race, depending on which pads you use.

[hford]

Thanks to all for the input!! In response to Jack21 -- I am using 15" wheels all around. The rear end is a 8.8 IRS Lincoln MkVlll type with discs. As for the front end, it has Mustang ll spindles as I stated. I like the looks of the Wilwood set up. It has aluminum hubs, the rotor (10.75) bolts to the back side of the hub, and the calipers are dual piston type. The thing that really concerns me for street use is the fact that this Wilwood setup uses a solid (non-vented) rotor. Rotor appears to be approx. 1/4" to 5/16" inch thick. Any input out there on using non-vented rotors on front of street car? Thanks again snakers!!!!

[427sharpe]

Ditto on the Performance Friction pads. They are excellent, and available @ Autozone (mine were 27.89). I use Lincoln Mk VI brakes front and rear w/ rotors redrilled to the 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern. My car has the solid axle 9" rear, narrowed 8.25" by Currie (came from a Mk VI), so I used the stock disc setup but had to weld on spring perches and a new bracket to use the 4 piston discs from a 99 F250. Very big, very heavy and stop VERY well!! On the front I use the M2 spindle, Lincoln Rotors and the 4 piston calipers from a late model F150, again w/ a homemade braket cut from 1/4" plate steel. Absolutely excellent stopping power from any insane speed. I can give you part numbers if you like, and all parts (except the mounting brackets) are available.

[Coloradocobra]

I was struggling with the stock Mustang II brakes on my car and made a number of calls to different shops. A hot rod guy in Nebraska installs a Heidts Granada/Wilwood combo that gives you Wilwood 4 piston calipers with the proper bracket to fit the granada 11 inch vented rotor. Yes, they are heavier than the Wilwood rotors but the hot rod builder said that they had too many problems with wear and warpage on the Wilwood rotors because they are really not a good high mileage street rotor.

So far my setup has worked great and the package with Granada rotor was cheaper than the full Wilwood setup. Only little problem was that a weld on the caliper bracket had to be ground down 1/16" because of slight interference with the spindle. Check with Heidts - you can buy direct or through many dealers. I can dig up part numbers if you need them.

Gary

[Jack21]

Are you using power brakes on your E-M? I just assumed you were, but with a Cobra, there is no good assumption. I've got a CR, and it uses an MII power brake booster. Without power boost, any of these setups would scare me.

With power, the 4 piston Wildwood caliper/Grenada rotor, or SSB caliper/Grenada rotor should provide good front brakes on a 15" wheeled car.

[acaskie]

Jopper

Do you have an e-mail or other address for Carbotech? thanks

[Mike Braddock]

I'm running MII front spindles as well on my EM. Solid disks on the front of a car like a cobra is a definite no no. They are primarily for drag cars that only need to stop once and then have time to dissipate the heat. You will warp solid rotors on the street with agressive driving and they won't last 2 laps on the track or autocrossing before warping. The vented Granada rotors and a quality set of pads are a much better choice for this applation. Cheaper, too. If you want to run Wilwood calipers, look into running vented discs.

You also need to consider how you plan to use the car. If you are running 15" tires on the street, you won't have enough grip to use anything more exotic than the 11" setup (and discs in the rear) using good pads and fluid. Although you can never have too much when it comes to brakes, the multipiston aftermarket setups are just overkill without enough tire to take advantage of the increased braking force. But they sure look nice

If you want still more stopping power, Baer makes a few different bolt on kits for the MII spindle, ranging from sliding calipers like the OEM's use (PBR calipers) to solid mounted 4 and 6 piston monolithic calipers (Alcon). I believe Wilwood makes a kit with vented rotors that fits the MII spindle, too.

If you are up to some custom fabrication and want a good, yet affordable solution, you can buy a set of 11 or 12" vented rotors, machine some aluminum hats to mount them on the MII spindle and fit a pair of PBR calipers as found on the late model cobra mustangs, corvettes, etc. Parts should run you less than $500 but you'll need some custom machining to produce the hats and caliper brackets.

Here's a very good article detailing the installation of a full Baer setup on a car with MII spindles and a 9" out back using 12" rotors all around. Excellent photos too. :

http://www.baer.com/catalog/magazines/SRB_10_2000.PDF

You will need Adobe Reader to view it. If you don't have it you can download it for free here

You can also view Baer's Application Guide which shows the kits they have available and pricing.

Mike

[Jim Weatherall]

I have Wilwood brakes on my EM. They are great. I replaced the Grenada 11" disks and saved about 40# of unsprung weight.
Jim

[Mike Braddock]

Jim,

Are you running vented rotors? What diameter and width? What calipers and pads? Did Wilwood sell a kit for your MII front spindles? Do you mind me asking what you paid for that setup? Thanks.

Mike

[hford]

Thanks a bunch to everyone for the input. I think probably the

Wilwoods with vented rotors is the route I'll go. Again, thanks

and any more info is always welcome.

[jopper]

acaskie

I don't have an e-mail address, but in Ft. Lauderdale their phone number is 954-493-9669. Ask for Larry. I believe the pads I got are the Super Street Pads. They were $105.00 a set for the Granada caliper. They have much more aggressive pad but don't recommend them for the street due to noise and dusting.

Jerry