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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:29 AM
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Default Brake Recommendations

I've recently installed Hawk HPS pads on my front 2 piston calipers. My brakes are now better than before but I'd like more. I'm sticking with my 15" wheels so I think I'm limited to my 11" rotors. I'm considering changing to either Baer or Wilwood 4 piston calipers but would appreciate recommendations and comments. My track days are behind me but I do enjoy "spirited" canyon carving whenever I get the chance.
BTW, I'm not wanting to go with a power booster, unless it would be very unobtrusive.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:53 PM
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Wilwood is my choice. The set up for 15" is better than Baer. IMO I have the four piston manual. Four point harness helps keep you out of the windshield.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Bebout View Post
I've recently installed Hawk HPS pads on my front 2 piston calipers. My brakes are now better than before but I'd like more.
Are you using the Stainless Steel brake conversion? (SSB-A185S)
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:35 PM
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Stainless Steel brake conversion? (SSB-A185S)

I don't see that this is any different than the calipers I have now. Am I missing something?

Gary, Why do you prefer the Wilwood over Baer?
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:20 PM
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Willwood seems to have a lot of experience converting mustang front suspension because of factory five. Which spindles does an ERA have?
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinoonaz View Post
Willwood seems to have a lot of experience converting mustang front suspension because of factory five. Which spindles does an ERA have?
Equivalent to mid-70s Camaro, although the system uses a "universal" design for caliper adapters.
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Bebout View Post
Stainless Steel brake conversion? (SSB-A185S)

I don't see that this is any different than the calipers I have now. Am I missing something?
?
You mentioned that you are using 2-piston calipers, which are not the stock design. Wilwood makes a 2-piston setup but the last time I checked the piston sizes were not compatible unless the master cylinder was changed to a much smaller one.
As far as the advantage of the SS Brake setup, because of various dimensional changes, it gives 5-10% more braking for equal effort.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:46 AM
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Thank you, Strictly. Since I'd bought the car from its original owner/builder, I was just assuming the front calipers were what had come with it. I'm going to do some soul-searching to see if I think a 5-10% increase is worth the $$
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:39 PM
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I am confused about these GM D52 two piston replacement calipers. I realize
neither the Wilwood nor the SSBC calipers would be a huge improvement with
the 11" discs. The stock single piston D52 has a 2 5/16" piston for a 6.77 sq."
area. The Wilwood d52 has two 2" pistons for a 6.28 sq." area. The SSBC
A185 has two 43mm or 1.69291" pistons for a 4.50 sq." area. Both the after
market 2 piston calipers are smaller in total area than the GM D52 yet Bob
suggests the smaller piston area SSBC is best assuming you use the stock
master cylinder. Why is this?
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:25 PM
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Consider moving up to a 17-18” rim, the old timey 15” severely limit brake caliper options. I recently upgraded to the 14” 6 piston Wilwood, hand of a God stopping power, no s**t.

Last edited by RUFdriver; 04-13-2019 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:55 AM
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You might also want to look at the length of your brake pedal relative to length of the pivot for the master cylinder push rod.... Wilwood, for example, sells one brake pedal assembly with a 6.25:1 ratio and another at 5.1:1. Obviously the higher the ratio the less pressure you need to push on the pedal.
Dwight likes this.
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Old 04-14-2019, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit Coyle View Post
I am confused about these GM D52 two piston replacement calipers. I realize
neither the Wilwood nor the SSBC calipers would be a huge improvement with
the 11" discs. The stock single piston D52 has a 2 5/16" piston for a 6.77 sq."
area.
Check your math. The stock D52's piston area is 4.4 sq in.

On the other hand, my memory failed me on the Wilwood 4-piston diameter. 2 x 2" piston would require a (big!) master cylinder diameter that doesn't exist.

Last edited by strictlypersonl; 04-14-2019 at 04:54 AM..
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:17 AM
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Check your clearance, Clairence. Proper set up, use the shims provided in the kit. Also Just my imo, but baer is easier to bleed than, the Wilwood
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Old 04-14-2019, 02:15 PM
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By the way... Nobody asked me but the reason there is a small increase in efficiency is that the center of pressure (on the friction pad) of the two-piston caliper is moved outward about 1/4" compared with the single piston. More leverage...
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:50 PM
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OK I will bite. I have the 4 piston Wilwood and master cylinder of correct size. I think 7/8. Work very well. Not as well as 14" six piston. What is the tech specs as to what Karl has by comparison to 4 piston.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:16 PM
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Bob...I understand that the two piston calipers spread the load out on the pad
and give a bit better clamping force and maybe better feel. I am probably off
somehow on trying to figure out the piston surface areas. For my stock ERA
brakes using the GM D52 single piston caliper I figure the area of a circle =
Pi x Radius squared, so with a piston diameter of 2 and 15/16 or 2.9375" I
took 3.14 x 1.46875 squared and got 6.77sq." The two after market two
piston D52 calipers...one with 2" pistons and the other 1.69291"...I figured the
same way. Where am I plugging in the wrong numbers?? I'm off somewhere!
Thanks for your time. I sure like the car and the stock brakes work well...I'd
change to the direct replacements just to get a better feel. Maybe just SS
brake lines and better pads would do the trick?
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit Coyle View Post
Bob...I understand that the two piston calipers spread the load out on the pad
and give a bit better clamping force and maybe better feel. I am probably off
somehow on trying to figure out the piston surface areas. For my stock ERA
brakes using the GM D52 single piston caliper I figure the area of a circle =
Pi x Radius squared, so with a piston diameter of 2 and 15/16 or 2.9375" I
The GM Camaro piston is 2.375" Maybe you found the specs for the full size GM series.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:32 AM
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I am not going to chime in as a"know it all" but after almost 40 years experience in race car braking systems you have to take caliper rigidity into the equation. We long ago abandoned single piston calipers due to flex. Modern day racing calipers are designed to be extremely rigid. (I.E Brembo, Wilwood, A.P.,StopTech). In addition the smaller the master cylinder the greater the pressure exerted at the calipers pistons. 7/8" is a common front but I have seen masters as small as 5/8" used in some applications. These are the calipers used on todays high end performance cars. You could use the most aggressive pad on the market but if the calipers clamping power is weak they would be of no benefit.
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