Fire Suppression System question...

Mike Braddock · #1 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 07:14 PM

I'm preparing to install a 5# SafeCraft fire suppression system I bought a while back and I've got a question for those who have installed one or are knowledgable about them. Originally I was instructed to run two lines to the engine compartment and one to the passenger cabin. The nozzles in the engine compartment were supposed to be mounted at the front and aimed backwards toward the carb and intake. The nozzle in the passenger compartment was supposed to be aimed toward the buckle on the driver's seat harness. I have a regular gas tank in the trunk, not a fuel cell, so I was told I don't need a nozzle in the trunk.

But my question is this: do I really need to place a nozzle in the passenger compartment, or should I just run the two lines to the engine compartment? There are no oil or fuel lines routed inside the passenger compartment, so I don't see the reason for having a nozzle inside there. Any opinions will be welcome

. Thanks.

Mike

PS I've also got a 2.5# extinguisher mounted in the passenger compartment in easy reach of the driver.

427sharpe · #2 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 08:12 PM

Yes, put the line into the cabin. The possibility exists of an electrical fire, or of flammable liquids getting into the cabin in the case of a failure, especially if it happens at speed and windage is involved. While a fire extinguisher is within easy reach NORMALLY..will it be so easy if your a$$ is on fire??

The interior line is extremely cheap insurance....and it may save your life!

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 08:16 PM

Mike,

The idea of having a nozzle in the cabin is to give you (and your passenger) a few precious extra seconds to get out of a bad situation.

Rich

Richard Hudgins · #4 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 08:17 PM

Hi Mike,

A couple of thoughts here.

1. The engine should have one nozzle.
2. The fuel area should have a nozzle.

3. THE MOST IMPORTANT AREA IS WHERE YOU SIT!!!!!!!

It really does not matter if the fire is put out in the engine or fuel area. These parts are replaceable.

You are not. It is always best to give the driver time to get out of the car if there is a fire event. You will need as much time as you can buy with the fire suppression system to make sure that you:

1. Do not breath in flames.
2. That your nomex does not see above 450 degrees for more than 20 seconds.
3. That you have time to get out without any of the first two happening.

Please believe me here, I have been in a few race car fire events and can show the scars from them. If I had not of had a fire system on board that was primarily aimed at the driver compartment, I would not be able to respond to your query.

cobrajeff · #5 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 04:28 AM

Mike -

Good advice from the other guys - a nozzle for the interior is extremely important.

I have three nozzles in my system:
1) aimed at ME
2) aimed at "the Webers"
3) aimed at the fuel tank/battery box

Like Richard says, that one in the interior is the MOST important - you can buy a new set of Webers, you can't buy a new set of legs.

BTW, the rationale that you "don't need one" for the fuel system because you have a fuel tank instead of a cell, sounds backwards to me. I believe a fuel cell is much less likely to rupture and catch fire than a standard production tank - that's what they (fuel cells) were invented for. I would recommend to protect the gas tank (or cell) regardless of which you have, as the connection to the fuel inlet is probably the most likely spot to leak fuel (in an accident) in either system.

regards,

Jeff Burgy

Mike Braddock · #6 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 07:32 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone! I too thought the logic of not having a nozzle in the trunk area because I have a fuel tank and not a cell seemed backwards. Steven Baker at SafeCraft was the one who told me this. He did tell me to put a nozzle in the passenger compartment; I was the one wondering why since there are no fluids routed through it. I thought in my case the extra halon supplied to the engine compartment would be a better solution, since (I thought) most fires would be in the engine compartment. So this is bad logic on my part? I certainly will go with the advice of those who have the experience to back up their knowledge.

So here are my questions after reading your insightful posts:

My fuel tank is mounted under the rear fiberglass floor and is completely sealed from the inside of the trunk. So, should I mount the nozzle under the trunk floor so it sprays the top of the fuel tank, or is there a better location? The only other items in the trunk are an Optima gel-cell battery and the halon bottle for the fire suppression system.

So one nozzle at the front of the engine compartment pointing backwards towards the carb is okay, or is there a better location for this one too?

In the passenger compartment, should I mount the nozzle so it sprays towards the driver's harness buckle, or again, is there a better location? I assume a second nozzle pointed towards the passenger's buckle is a good idea too? Perhaps with an inline valve so this nozzle can be turned off unless an instructor is riding along at a driver's school? Or just leave it 'on' all the time?

Finally, for my situation will the 5# bottle be sufficient, or should I be looking at stepping up to a 10# bottle? The car will be street driven about 90% of the time and we plan on doing some driving schools and autocrossing with it the other 10%.

Again, thank you all for your help.

Mike

cobrajeff · #7 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 09:28 AM

Mike -

Here would be my suggestions:

If the gas tank is completely closed off from the trunk, AND there is no gas tank filler neck routed thru your trunk, then I would not put a nozzle in the trunk, or under the trunk on the tank. If there is a filler neck routed thru your trunk (with joints and hose connections), then I think I'd put a nozzle in there.

If you do not need to use a nozzle in the trunk, then I would consider a second nozzle for interior (passenger). I think I would forego the "on/off" switch for it. Any additional Halon introduced into the compartment should improve your chances of getting out before getting seriously burned. I am using only one nozzle in the interior, aimed between driver and passenger.

I am using a 10# bottle in my car. Someplace I saw a recommendation that there should be a bottle for EACH zone protected in the car (i.e., one for engine compartment, one for interior). I have selected a single 10# bottle based on mostly street use, and only a few track events. If I were going to do a lot more track events, I'd consider having separate bottles for other zones.

Jeff Burgy

Mike Braddock · #8 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 09:39 AM

Thanks Jeff. The fuel fill tube does not enter the trunk compartment. So does that mean I don't need a nozzle for the rear of the car--ie for the tank? I was told the 5# should be adequate for a street car that sees a little track time, but if I'm going to install it, I want it to work properly, should it ever be needed. Thanks again.

Mike

Hal Copple · #9 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 09:58 AM

I am about halfway thru my Halon Installation, a ten pound system, got at a NASCAR operation near Charlotte, unused, cheap. If you put in too many nozzles, you won't have enough gas to swamp each place with Halon. with a five pound system, it is suggested you use two nozzles.

I am running mine with AN 4 Teflon hose, very easy to cut and fit, nice and snuggly fitted with clamps along the way. I have one three way outlet nozzle on the firewall aimed at the back of the carb. I was part way thru putting a nozzle down low along each header, thinking about how hot fire would rise, etc. But due to all the hosing, and possibility of an accident knocking it all apart, went with my single engine compartment outlet, snug and tight on the front of the firewall. I picked up a used NASCAR aircraft AN toggle valve shut off, i have not seen one in any of the AN parts catalogues, and am going to put it on the tunnel, aimed at me, left on, so with a hard pull on the activation handle, my system will blow gas both to me and the engine, but if only an engine fire, if you turn the valve, all the Halon goes to the engine.

I carry a 5# Halon in the passenger compartment, will tell my son if an engine fire when he is out in the car, to drop the hood, fire the Halon to the engine, spray the portable Halon half into each side vent, and wait for help. My system is all AN staineless steel stuff, with bulkhead connectors where necessary.

To be extra nifty, i am hooking up a nice parachute D ring, one used for reserve parachute activation, to the release pin in the compartment pull handle. I picked up a beautiful small alumimum switch box out of Jeff Gordon's car at the NASCAR shop, with a nice Hendrick Motorsports decal on it, jewel-like in construction, but can't find a way to use it yet.

I also drive on the drag strip/road course in full three layer nomex head to toe, including Balacava for my face.

cobrajeff · #10 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 10:01 AM

Mike -

Sounds like, for your car, I would not put one in the rear. Halon works best in an enclosed area or "compartment" (engine compartment, interior compartment, trunk). If your fuel tank and filler are not in any compartment, you won't have enough Halon to fight a fire outside of an enclosed area - save it for the areas that are enclosed, where it will be most effective.

If your fire system supplier says the 5 lb. bottle is adequate, then I would consider defering to their judgement. When I built my car, I WAS planning on doing more track events. That, plus having been seriuosly burned before, led me to select a 10 lb. bottle.

Jeff

mickmate · #11 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 04:52 PM

With SCCA cars we are required to put the release within reach of the driver (upside down strapped or whatever) AND someone outside the car. That's in case your not able to activate it. But hell what would I know, I set the bottle off in my lap during an installation and thought I'd never have kids!!! Make sure the cable release is securely engaged before releasing the bottle valve.
Cheers Nick with the still functioning nads.

Roscoe · #12 (**permalink**) 05-03-2002, 07:27 AM

The purpose of the system is to buy you time to get out of the car. If the fire goes out that is a secondary benefit. Insurance pays for the damage.

Now I have a three nozzle Safecraft system. I spoke with Safecraft and was told that the cockpit nozzle(s) is most effective when facing downward into the footbox. This allows the initial blast to your feet and the secondary blast from the blowback out of the footbox onto you.

I placed two nozzles in the cockpit, one for me and one for the passenger. I placed one in the engine compartment. I was told that it really does not matter where as the engine compartment is a closed area.

I did not place one around my gas tank because this can rupture anwhere, inside the trunk area, outside, left, right, etc. Aside from the trunk it is not an enclosed area and it did not seem to be very effective.

I also threw away the soft aluminum line that came with the system and used the teflon lined, stainless braided #4 (or #3) hose. A little more expensive but easier and much neater.

Roscoe