Damn! That can't be good!

[Okiesnake]

Took the valve cover off my 351W, Edlebrock Performer RPM aluminum heads and found this! Push rod poking through the rocker arm.
What do you all think? how bad is it?

[Okiesnake]

another view

[Bob Parmenter]

Wow Okie!

Looking at the metal around the rod it looks like a fracture rather than wear through. Do you know where the piece(s) is/are? That would be the first thing. If you can find one or a few pieces that make up the missing part then your contamination worries could be lessened. If not, ...................disassembly time or more problems later.

After that it's determine the cause: defective rocker, bad lifter (hydraulic), valve spring bind, bent valve (and what caused that?) or ??????

Edelbrock has a tech line. Have you contacted them?

[hound dog]

OkieSnake,
You just can't catch a break lately can you? I'd say that if your engine was running good before the rocker arm broke, it probably isn't anything more than a rocker arm failure, maybe caused by poor oiling. Check to see that the hole through the pushrod is open all the way through. A new set of roller rockers may be in order.
h dog

[Back in Black]

You all had better check that pushrod for true-ness, maybe better just to replace it, along with your new roller rockers

And, one has gotta wonder what has been going on in a cylinder with no thru flow? (depending on whether it's exhaust or intake too) Anyone have an idea?

[Mr.Fixit]

When you replace those rockers, I highly recomend the comp cams all steel roller rockers. Aluminum rockers "work harden" and are considered a throwaway item after a few thousand racing miles. The steel rockers have less "felt" weight at the valve than most aluminum roller rockers. Also, if the budget permits and you are concerned with rocker arm stud deflection or breakage, get yourself some stud-girdles. After these, it's a shorter jump to that high-intensity roller cam you've always wanted (and new valvesprings, and possibly corrected legth pushrods). But don't bother with roller tip rockers that have no trunion bearing at the fulcrum. This is where the friction is most greatly reduced, oil temperature is most affected(as far as the rocker is concerned), and stability is most needed.

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Replace lifters......no oil
Mike
________
Honda CL90

[Rick Parker]

It would be wise to check the area under the pivot ball as the camshaft being used could be forcing the slot in the rocker to or past the limit of travel thereby locking up the rocker arm on the stud. Look for marks on the stud itself and take necessary action. High lift cams require longer slots (some standard arms are available with longer slots). Inspect the ends of the slots that the rocker pivits on and consider roller rockers as free horsepower because of less friction. At a bare minimum find the fractured pieces as Bob stated above, they will lock up an oil pump in a split second! Look amoung the coils of the other springs as well as in the pan. Do not run it again until you are satisfied that you found the pieces.

Rick..........

[Jim Downard]

Looks broke!

Time to drop the pan. Very good chance the parts your looking for are down there. Also, a good little piece of advice that us diesel mechanics like to give is magnetic drain plugs. If there's anything in the oil, it'll be on the drain plug too.

good luck

Jim Downard

[Clois Harlan]

I had a 66 GTO a got a backfire after start up one day. I thought I had bent a push rod but I found the same problem you have. The car was only 4 years old at the time. Recruited my dad who had me place a heavy magnet on the pan and then drain the oil and pull the pan. I found no sizeable filings or metal pieces at the point of the magnet. We took the heads in for inspection and was told that the rocker arm apparently had a manufacturing defect and had fatigued under use. Naturally, my dad was sure I had been hot rodding (I had) and it was my fault.

Long story short, we replaced the lifters, push rods, and rocker arms and the old GTO lived a nice long life for a GM even with my occassional hot rodding. By the way I used the Crane Roller Rockers on my 302 and loved them. When I sold my engine last year I had about 4000 miles on them with no signs of wear. If you want to go to a roller rocker call Tommy Vaughn Ford in Houston. They have excellent prices and lots of Hot Rod parts.

Good luck.

[427Aggie]

Okie you better get that thing fixed quick...we only have 1 MONTH until Tulsa

Margarita's margarita's.


Matt

[niles]

Olie:

Need much more info before any conclusions can be drawn:
they look like stock Ford rockers?
what kind of cam are you running?
Important- what springs are you running -static preload?
What RPM were you running when failure occured
Important- Is valve bent; have you run a compression check on that hole?
Fill in this info and a diagnosis and possible failure cause can be developed.
gn

[Flyin_Freddie]

...on a '67 327 Camaro. I had developed what I thought was a mis-fire, but after replacing all the plugs, wires and distributor cap, it was still with me. More diagnosis pointed to a valve problem. When I removed the right side valve cover, I had the exact same problem as your pictures.

I consulted with an auto parts counter guy and he basically said the same things...place a really stong magnet on the bottom of the oil pan, replace the push rod and rocker arm, change the oil and filter and start it up. Engine lasted another 35K before I traded it! Apparently, the piece of metal that broke off the rocker arm just fell down the return oil gallery into the oil pan and was never made it back to the oil pump. I suspected lifter problems, and everything else. Most probably it was just a weak spot in the rocker arm. Never again had another problem with the engine.

But...I'd still remove the pan, determine what's in it that shouldn't be, change the oil and filter, and replace the damaged parts.

Good luck...let us know what turns up!

[Mr.Fixit]

One more great reason to run a lifter valley baffle. I had a motor (396 BBC) that broke pieces off the valve spring's inner dampner springs; on three different valves. Also lost the top part of a polylock with the set screw still in it. All these parts were sitting on the lifter containment / oil baffle tray. The motor had run great for over 40,000 miles without any real loss of performance, so I didn't even have the valve covers off after the third month. Those were all low perf factory parts, but now I always run matched cam / springs, I just over worked those stock parts.

[creeper]

Dang, how did you find that? Engine making noise or just doing regular checks?

[Nick Chelenza]

Trent
You sure are having a round of luck buddy. Check other rockers and see if they show any similar wear at the contact points of the push rods. The cam lift may be exceeding the geometry of the rockers. If all the other rockers seem ok then you may be dealing with a defective single one, although that may just be the first one to go in a bad set. Hard to say. When we rebuilt the boy's 5.0 and went with the roller rockers our machinist had us get a new set of case hardened push rods that had a different length to accomodate for the changes. That may not apply here, but measurements and rocker movement seemed different to me as I remember going through that phase of the build up. If your rockers were stock and the push rods case hardened, any wear would end up in the rocker seat. I do agree that you need to clean all after figuring out what caused the failure. If you need any help give me a call at home or office. I'll be glad to turn some bolts with you.
Nick

[jrussell]

Trent,
I'm glad you caught it when you did! I also hope for the best in the damage area, and plan to see you up and running in Tulsa in just a bit over a month.
good luck on the fix!
John Russell

[Okiesnake]

Thanks everyone for all the great input and support. I’m pretty bummed out about it. Nick, thanks for the offer of assistance but I’m going to rent a trailer and take it down to ET Automotive in Dallas this weekend and have it totally checked out. I have heard great this about them.
Okiesnake