Trigo wheels binding...

excelguru · #1 (**permalink**) 09-26-2002, 04:36 PM

I'm using the knock-off pin-drive wheels manufactured by Trigo. My Wilwood hubs use the Chevy bolt pattern instead of the Ford pattern. The rear wheels are fine but the front wheels are a real pain in the a**. Apparently the bolt circle diameter used to drill the holes in the backside of the front wheels is slightly too small, so the pins will bind against the wheel. This makes installing and removing the wheels a real "cussing experience".

Does anyone else have this problem? How did you resolve it? I plan to call Trigo tomorrow and complain. I also plan to have the pins turned down to a slightly smaller diameter (again) at a local machine shop. I turned them down once already and the wheels still bind.

I'm still smiling, though...

Keith

RACER X #99 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-26-2002, 04:54 PM

Same problem here. Trigos are sitting on basement floor waiting for some day to go on car when it becomes a street car again.
Perhaps enlarging the holes in the wheels rather than making the pins smaller would be safer.
Just a guess.

Cranky

RPRICE · #3 (**permalink**) 09-26-2002, 06:12 PM

excelguru, i had the same problem with the ford wheels. my problem was not incorrect pin diameter, but out of round pins. the pins are very soft anyway and my pins were "bulged" out of round when the allen head drive was tightened. took the pins off and tightened them on a 1/4 inch carrage head bolt and nut. chucked the bolt up in a drill and spun while holding fine sandpaper against the pin. could see right away the high spots. when they were gone, pins fit fine into the wheel. have had to redo a few pins as the adapters are removed for rotor work, etc. hope this helps. but btw, there have been different pin diameters used on various wheels combinations used by SPF. if your set up was all new from trigo, this should not be the issue.
richard price
memphis

Pete C · #4 (**permalink**) 09-26-2002, 11:00 PM

excelguru,
Lynn Park has a template that he will send or sell you that will permit you to align the pins properly. Once this is done they come on and off real easy. Call him. Also if you are stronger and more persistent than you are smart (me), once you get them on and drive for a while the pins will pretty much straighten themselves and on and off is easier. Even then the template is a good idea as you can use it to see which pins are not perfectly perpendicular and straighten them. Once done, on and off is a snap. I have one set with street tires and one with slicks and the swap is easy.

Cheers, Pete

PS be sure to use anti seize on all metal to metal contact.

excelguru · #5 (**permalink**) 09-27-2002, 07:55 AM

I plan to give Lynn a call today. I figured that either the bolt circle was wrong (on the wheel) or the pins were not drilled and tapped parallel to their outer diameters. Sounds like the latter may be the case. I only had about 0.002" or 0.003" removed from the diameters, but I may need to remove more like 0.020" or 0.030" from the looks of it. But at least my outer diameters are now parallel with the inner threads.

The template sounds like a good idea, but when you spend $2400 for a set of wheels, the damn things should fit right out of the box. The fact that Trigo made a template to fix the problem simply reinforces the fact that they know there's something wrong with the design. Why not fix the design in the first place?

I may just "force" the wheel to seat and drive it around for a while in hopes that they'll align themsleves properly before I need to remove the wheel again. They need to put anti-sieze in an aerosol can so I just spray it everywhere.

Keith

Mr.Fixit · #6 (**permalink**) 09-27-2002, 08:04 AM

The problem is often wheel studs that aren't perfectly aligned / straight. If you get the wheels on there, driving around on them usually straightens them out. The drive pins come in different diameters. The black ones are a little smaller than the silver ones. I recommend agaist grinding the wheels or drive pins to make them fit. If you put antiseize on the drive pins(you should) you can sometimes see which drive pins are not going into the holes, a light tap in the right direction with the lead hammer on the drive pin in question often makes all the difference. They can be hard to put on the first time, but after that they go right on and off.

Pete C · #7 (**permalink**) 09-27-2002, 09:55 AM

Fix It is dead on right. The problem is with stud to hub alignment. The wheels are correct it is the mount point that is sometimes the problem. Dont grind just straighten. If you grind and then by driving the studs straighten you will have a whole new set of problems due to play. If you modified any of the trigo pins have him send you new ones.

Cheers, Pete

Dominik · #8 (**permalink**) 11-15-2002, 03:30 AM

TRIGO wheels

So here it goes, it is going to be long:

The other day I received my latest set of TRIGO wheels. After shipping to South-Africa, customs and tax their "value" increased by 50%.

Beeing very tired with my project car at the moment I kept the adapters for a stuation where I needed something to work out straighforward to give me new strength for the project.

Sure enough the moment came, when my oil cooler that came with the car, was leaking when I started the engine for the first time.

Wheels off, adapters on. 1st mistake: to restore the existing thread I chased them with a 1/2"x20 from Craftsman and only realised when I was about to be finished that the Jaguar thread features a Whitworth thread pitch of 55 degrees compared to the 60 degrees of the SAE thread of the tap. By doing this I converted my high tensile rolled thread with a flow in grain around the root of the thread into a "home improved" cut thread. Not good.

Stud bolts on, not quite: my wheels studs are too long. Cut them off with a hacksaw because I hate the noise and mess of the speed grinder. It turned out that I would have needed two blades per stud.

I have a beer.

Okay, quick, quick with the speed grinder. It is getting dark and late, I better close the doors because of the neighbors. The red glowing threads from the studs made me think for a brief period, but I carried on (2nd mistake or annealing?). A bit of filing and massaging of the taper to restore the start of the thread and on went the stud bolts.

This is now the new version of stud bolts, shiny - compared to the dull looking 1st gen ones which used to crack because of the thin wall around the hex, which is now a 12mm opposed to 1/2". Good idea, but why did they crack?

To check for straightness of the studs a centering ring is supplied, imitating the bolt pattern of the wheels. Looks alright, I slide the ring on easily, take it off and torque the stud bolts.

Grab a wheel slide it on - not. Wheel to the side, check with the ring: does not fit. Loosen the stud bolts, ring fits. Take the stud bolts off, inspect the adapter: only a contact area of 0.020" (or something ) is seen. The taper of the adapter seems not to match the one from the stud bolt bending the stud bolt to the side upon torquing.
Also, it is no uniform. More like quenched on the stud bolt instead of machined.

I have a beer.

Next day machine shop. Check the taper and get confirmaton of my assumption. Okay, make them fit, give me the same taper on the stud bolts as on the adapter.

Another day. I pick them up and JJ explains me that only at the last stud bolts his turner mentioned that the thread in the stud-bolt is not parallel to the outside! He grabbed the stud-bolts with a threaded round steel to machine the taper in relation to the thread. Good idea!

I take them home anyway, check contact area to the adapter, find that they fit now nicely (the whole taper of the adapter is now shiny after bolting the sbs down), try the wheel: does not fit.

I have another beer.

What now? Another day (remember, I thought about addding the wheels easily when the car gives me other troubles) I bolt on the sbs (stud bolts) measure distortion at torqing them down and find that they may fit if they were a little less in diameter.

Have them turned down (mistake no 3?), parallel to the thread, drive home, it is getting dark, they do not fit.
Upon torqueing them they still move out of straightness and I do not know why. Maybe the taper lenght of the stud-bolt is now too short to fit in the adapter, meaning I have to bevel the adapter to clear the taper start of the stud-bolt? I do not know. I am not modifying the adaptors, let alone the wheels.

I have another beer.

The machine shop makes me an offer I can't resist: manufacture new stud bolts. I put the Compomotive wheels on for now. I do not have other tires anyway at the moment.

Any ideas? TRIGO did not respond so far. I hate to post it, but I do not know what to do.
Sending everything back is out of question. I would have massive problems to get customs and tax back, as well as shipping of USD 500 to South-Africa.

BTW, cost of the wheels after arriving here eat a 3 month south-africa's salary, although I got a discount.

Eventually TRIGO admitted that the stud-bolts are machined wrong. A couple of weeks and I should have new ones ..., but in the meantime I try toget similar ones from a local wheel manufacturer and modify them.

I have time now to wait, because the rebuilt engine was not supposed to live with the 3/8" con-rods. although 5500 is not very high-revving. lost some con-rods and an irreplaceable block.
I would have bought better rods if I had known.

You all have a very great day (by BJ)!

Dominik, Cape Town

Mr.Fixit · #9 (**permalink**) 11-15-2002, 07:31 AM

The first time you put the wheels on can be a pain because the drive pins are not straight, even though they look like they are. Put antiseize liberally on the pins, try and mount the wheels. If they don't slide on you will see which pins are hitting at which places on the wheel's hub. A gentle tap with the lead hammer in the correct direction, and try it again. Do this a couple of times and you should get it on. The pins do come in different diameters as well, shiny ones are bigger than black ones, and do not put them on with an impact wrench, thet will open up in diameter a little if you do. After you get them on once, they come on and off much easier after some miles as they align themselves. Just be patient and quit trying to convince yourself that there has to be a manufacturing defect. I know what you are going through, I did too on the first dozen or so sets of Trigo's I mounted on cobras.

Rick Parker · #10 (**permalink**) 11-15-2002, 07:54 PM

I used the Trigo (blank) adapters and machined them and the axles to accept the OEM pattern of 6 pins on 4 1/4" diameter with countersunk holes secured with regular 1/2" diameter wheel studs. Then the 3/4" barrel nuts (actual drive pins) are torqued to apply the clamping load. The PSE FIA wheels have 6 holes (49/64ths") that allow about .015 clearance with the barrel nut diameters. This is quite adequite given the pin diameters and the bolt circle diameter. I machined the same 49/64th" diameter holes on a 6x4 1/4" pattern in a piece of 6" diameter round stock to mimic the backside of the wheel. And then put it over the barrel nuts and then torqued the barrel nuts. This contained or limited the expansion (if any) of the barrel nuts and kept them alligned during the tightening process. To date I have not had any problems. The PSE FIA wheels will not permit a 5 lug pattern due to the diameter and design of the mounting pad on the back of the wheel.

Rick

Dominik · #11 (**permalink**) 02-25-2003, 11:50 PM

dear knock-off wheel friends,

I tried the new TRIGO stud bolts on a spare rotor lying in my garage.
the fit perfectly. the wheels are a bit more forgiving than the centering ring. they slip right on. the ring is a bit tight.

the new version of stud-bolts is black with an internal 12-point M12 hex.
a 12mm Allen socket will be needed.

I got two sets so I feel that they are widely available now.

enjoy,

dominik - south africa

excelguru · #12 (**permalink**) 02-26-2003, 07:37 AM

Did you buy them straight from Trigo? How recently? How much were they?

Keith

agro1 · #13 (**permalink**) 02-26-2003, 08:10 AM

I had the same prob with mine when I went to the PSE 17" wheel...Had to change the pins to longer ones but they still were a pain to get on. Lead hammer, couple of good smacks and a few burnouts straightened those things out

Dominik · #14 (**permalink**) 03-01-2003, 11:38 PM

TRIGO sent me their latest design stud-bolt recently after telling them for months that there is something wrong.

they seem to work!

dom

xcobraj · #15 (**permalink**) 03-02-2003, 05:10 PM

I think we figured out the problem with the trigos binding the way they do,at least for me.It seems the angle on the pins supplied by Lyn don't match the angle on the adaptor where they screw in.Put each pin in a lathe and matching the angles together seemed to do the trick.The wheels seems to go on no matter which pins you put in which holes in wheels.I didn't think it should be this tuff!I hope this is a simple solution to a very strange problem.And for the people a TRIGO,you make a great product,this shouldn't have been this hard.

SCOBRAC · #16 (**permalink**) 03-07-2003, 11:37 PM

I split one of Trigo's "new" pins too.. It was on the first and only wheel I actually got on my car.. (they didn't end up fitting) But anyway I went to sinch the pin down using the allen wrench supplied from Trigo with a slight whack from my bare hand, yes the allen wrench was properly seated, the pin cracked wide open..

It was hell getting it off without really messing up the hub. The new pins are hardened and resistant to compression tools, vice grips, et al. I ended up cutting flat spots with a grinder on the pin to get the vice grips to bite..

As it turned out, I get the wheel on much like the most of you did by beating the crap out of it... IT DIDN'T FIT... Ok.. Partly my fault and partly not.. LP promised they fit every Contemporary he had seen (I have talked to several people since that have shortened half shafts to make them fit)

The long and short of it without casting dispersions is Trigo wouldn't take them back because the tires had been put on.. Expensive lesson at $3400.. (wheels, tax, shipping tires and more tax)

Turns out PS Engineering wheels use Trigo hubs.. I guess I am only out $2300.. Oh that makes me feel much better.. I will say Phil Schmidt is a class act and had me new custom offset wheels in 5 days 9.5 front and 11" rear..

Thanks Trigo.. These things will make killer glass top coffee table supports..

Chaplin · #17 (**permalink**) 03-08-2003, 06:35 AM

There are so many things that I have bought for this car and paid more for because I wanted to eliminate all risk of things not fitting properly and make sure they "look right." I haven't actually tried to fit my Trigos on the car yet, but for $2400 I hope they fit without additional machining.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed . . .

Turk · #18 (**permalink**) 03-08-2003, 07:05 AM

Lynn Parks has many friends on this forum. It would be very helpfull, if someone close to Lynn would make him aware of the current discussion regarding the diffuculties folks are having with his otherwise beautiful wheels.

Maybe Lynn can come in and read some of the experiences of the customers and offer a solution or two. He knows his wheels, and makes a fine product.

So if any of you are on first name basis with Mr. Parks and feel he would benefit from such an explanation, please contact him and ask him to come in and say a few words.

Thanks

TURK

Dominik · #19 (**permalink**) 03-08-2003, 08:03 AM

okay,

i admit, as indicated, I tried them only on a rotor lying on the floor without applying torque.

that I did today: cracked... - without even twisting hard.

shame, such nice wheels such f*** stud bolts. try to get good ones from CAV's GT40 - good luck! my wheels sit here since 8 months. very expensive over here after shipping and stuff. one can get 500 12-oz staeks in a good restaurant for the price...

how come I get no notification of theis thread? yes, it is ticked in my profile.

dom, cape town - 30 minutes away from CAV.

Chaplin · #20 (**permalink**) 03-08-2003, 09:01 AM

Turk is correct. Lynn was a great person to do business with and his wheels are beautiful. Truth be told, I would buy from him again even if it turns out that the wheels do need some minor adjustments to fit properly because he is a first class act. Maybe Lynn can shed some light on the problem.