What Exactly is an FE Engine

[Sizzler]

Originally posted by KobraKarl


Ron,

beleive it or not the firing order of the FE has been a puzzler for me , do I need to start another thread to get you to tell me why and how this order was created?

Exactly as someone else intimated above, if you convert the cylinder numbering to GM, it's the same firing order as an SBC (I think).

[mrmustang]

It obviously was.......As was my grandmother (the only living grandparent by that time), a fiesty women until the age of 93 or so......Down hill after that......Died at the ripe old age of 98..........I truly miss her at times..........


Bill S.

Originally posted by Monster


Bill,

So you we're 4 1/2....................a very impressionable age

Mike "monster"

[cobrashoch]

The firing order of a engine is the direct result of the crankshaft design. Last time I compaired the throws of a Chevy to a FE several years ago they did not match up. There is some torque advantages and disadvantages to be had by verying the firing order of a engine. Ford took advantage of that with FE's and thats why they were competitive in forms of racing that required more or less constant RPM ranges. Ever wonder why FE's had so many types of heads? With hind-site, the answer is they couldn't get it right, at least by current head thinking. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing FE's, cause I love them to death. But there really is a reason they don't make them anymore. They were made from 57 to the early 70's. When you look at 460's being made from 67 up to the presant that has to tell you something. Come to think of it, the unbalanced firing orders of current racing engine thinking should tell me something to. One only has to look a V-10 Viper to conclude that we have came full circle.
cobrashock

[SCOBRAC]

1966 was a very good year

[cobrashoch]

Michael- Yes it was for Ford. But lets look/see what the "other" guys were doing in 66. Chrysler had a little dity called the 426-HEMI and Chevy just came out with the 396/427. I rest my case.
cobrashock

[aumoore]

Ron
Ford had a Hemi too. The 427 SOHC had Hemi Heads and overhead cams. Think of a 7.0 Liter Modular motor of today and you get the picture. The Boss 429 was also a hemi but came from the factory with restrictive iron exhaust manifolds and a really drappy cam. I have read that 2 seconds in the 1/4 coul be had in a Boss 429 Muatang with just a cam swap and headers. It takes a lot of HP to drop 2 seconds in the 1/4.

[KobraKarl]

OK,

but why fire 7-8 consecutively ?

[cobrashoch]

KobraKarl- You've got it right. I don't know the whys though. What I do know is that 1956 someone in Ford engineering O.K.'d that design. I use it as a example to show folks there really is other ways to do things and they sometimes work.
Aumoore- The cammer FE was of a very ill design with way more problems than I care to get into here in this thread. The "shotgun" is another story all together but belongs in the 385 engine section. It, along with the 426 Hemi is a victim of change in racing engine thinking. That to, is the subject of another thread.
I know, I'm a old Hemi guy and I hate it.
As for droping two seconds in a ET, 300 horsepower in a 2500 lbs car that hooks up will get you to the very low 11's. The shotguns power was made on the big end and was useless unless modified. And I don't like o-rings.

cobrashock

[JBAIRD]

FE stands for : FORD ENGINE. IT NEVER stood for anything else!! Ford-Edsel is as myth and always has been, most people are just repeating what they have heard any nothing more.

[Dan Semko]

John,
I just corresponded with a gentleman that may be interested in your car. I sent him your direction. Is you car still available?

[cobrashoch]

JBAIRD- I don't care, call them anything you want too.
cobrashock

[JBAIRD]

Dan, Sold it 1 month ago. Thank You, though.

[Dan Semko]

Congratulations John,
I think Jim Price should personally invite you for a factory tour. You have to be one of the top purchasers NOT within the dealer network!

[bmalone]

I better throw my $.02 in the ring. This from a non-Ford publication (period NASCAR, actually). It is more a comment on how potent the Cammer was in comparison to the Chrysler and Chevy.

"In the rush to victory Ford obliged the new seven liter displacement cap of NASCAR with the 427 production motor, introduced in 1963. Had NASCAR raised this limit or made no such restriction, Ford would have produced a larger animal, having raced stroked motors on the salt flats upwards of 483 cid. This behavior was exactly the engineering aggression that catapulted Ford's reputation and competitiveness. As would always be the case through the 60's, competition restrictions dictated 427 production designs. With the 427 cross bolted foundation and a (relatively) consistent displacement requirement, Ford set about improving the horsepower potential through head designs that incorporated increasingly larger valves, ports and intake designs that performed better than the competitions factory equipment ever would. It holds true that Ford's factory equipment for this motor was superior to any GM efforts no matter how covert or blatant, and Chryco had to rely on crossram technology to make the torque they needed, even with the Hemi engine. Tug of war with NASCAR approval over Hemi and SOHC motors in competition led to 1965's boycott by Chryco and GM's reticence incensed France who wanted diversity in the field. The eventual "acceptance" of the 427 SOHC motor by NASCAR came too late and with provisos that made it untenable, particularly since the 427 wedge was so inherently competitive. As a result of Bill France's faint heartedness, the SOHC was built in limited quantities of around a 1000, all for drag racing and non NASCAR competition use by factory backed name racers. It was the most powerful motor ever built in this fashion (by a major manufacturer for competition use). The race hemi has to take a backseat by quite a few horsepower. At the time of greatest effort by the big 3, Chevrolet produced it's greatest big block, the L-88 which produced 565 horsepower as built, and the race hemi in NASCAR trim made 600 horses in full regalia. The SOHC made 615 horsepower with a single carb. 660 or so with dual Holleys. Out of the crate, so to speak."

And, no I am not inviting comparison to Windsors or 385s--just a little reference from the time period.

[cobrashoch]

Bill- The period piece on the cammer is interesting but it's not exactly square with what we now know to be true today. BTW- in the pre restrictor plate days in NASCAR both the Ford and Chrysler hemis made over 700hp. When they went to restrictor plates it killed the Fords and the Chryslers just lost a bit of power but continued to be about as fast. During that time Petty championed the shotgun. To this day he says the Ford hemi ran just as good as the Chrysler hemi, but the record book for both him and the Chryslers say otherwise. And contrary to popular belief around here the Cammer would not have even kept up with the other Ford effort, let alone the Chryslers. With or without plates. I repeat, the cammer was very flawed, not just a little flawed, VERY flawed. I'll give you a hint on just one thing about them amounst' many mistakes made on them. Take a look at that big ol' long chain that drives the works. Now imagine that chain going 7000rpms for 3 hours solid in a race. You do the math. I really wished they would have legalized the darn thing. It wouldn't be the urban legend that it is today. And yes, you are talking to a Ford guy.

cobrashock

[scottj]

Weren't the big blocks long gone by the time (1987) that restrictor plates became the rule.

[bmalone]

Hi Ron, I found that excerpt very interesting also--I didn't say it was 100% truthful, but to Ford guys like you and I, certainly interesting.

No doubt the inherent design (ohc) exposed a weakness (6' chain) when subjected to sustained operation.

I still love the damn thing, anyway.

[Traveller]

The point I get from that excerpt is that the SOHC motor was unecessary. Ford was competing and winning with the Tunnel Port 427 SO.

But since we are slaying myths here, let me ask the question:

During the years in which they competed, between '64 and mid '69, which engine won more NASCAR championships?

a) the feared and vaunted Mopar 426 Hemi

b) the sad pile of crap, boat anchor Ford 427

[bmalone]

[Excaliber]

scottj,,,,,
I thought the first step in "slowing the cars down" was the reduction in cubic inches allowed, maxed out at 355?? It was my understanding that THIS was what killed ALL the big blocks across the board.


After that came restrictor plate racing as we know it today. Which I thought happened WAY after the cubic inch rule was in place.

It COULD BE that they had a restrictor plate rule for a short time before they reduced the motor size. The whole intent here was to SLOW the cars down and a big block with a plate was STILL mighty potent. Speeds were well in excess of 200 mph.

It was determined that it was NOT possible at those high speeds for ANY driver to be able to react in time to accidents. The drivers themselves were calling for change.

Fast forward to today:
Speeds are STILL increasing in spite of the smaller motors AND the restrictor plates! Now there talking about "aerodynamic" rules to slow the cars. The plan is to KEEP the cars under the 200 mph speeds, what ever that takes.

Ernie