hydraulic throw out bearing problems

NJ2000R · #1 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 11:54 AM

I have an ERA 427 4spd with a hyd t.o. bearing....the clutch pedal went to the floor and stayed there....we tried bleeding it and did not build pressure....it seems inside the unit is leaking, possibly a line ruptured, or the unit itself went bad....I'm not familiar with the internals of this unit, but have heard others complain of them....so, I'm looking for opinions from others with experience with them, good or bad, and any other tips and advice you may have....I have to decide weather to fix it, or replace it with a mechanical one....thanks in advance!

Charlie · #2 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 01:08 PM

NJ200R,
You didn't say which throw-out bearing you are using. Can you give more details? I went through this recently so I may have some input. A quick search over old threads will reveal some things too, as well as unlimited opinions.

Also, how did you get a halibrand quick-change into your ERA? Is that one of their options with the new rear assembly they have? I guess I could find that out by going to their web site, but as long as we are talking . . . you can save me the trip.

NJ2000R · #3 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 01:17 PM

not sure of the brand, I bought it 90% complete as an abandoned project....its a red primer color steel bellhousing, if that helps....

the halibrand rear is a pretty neat set-up, I'll see if I can upload some pics....

its ERA chassis #362 (around 1992 vintage)

Thanks!

Ken

Charlie · #4 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 01:47 PM

No, bellhousing color doesn't help! You will have to pull the tranny out to identify the hydraulic bearing. At that point you may want to just switch over to an external unit. I chose to try a different brand after my first failure of one of these. So far, so good, but not too many miles yet to really comment on its longevity yet. My initial failure was related to wrong master cylinder size and lack of pedal stop. I chose to ignore their silly warnings in their silly instruction manual and temped fate. Oh well!

Sorry to get off the subject in your time of distress, but that Halibrand quick-change has me intrigued. Not that I need one, it just sounds like a cool set-up in an ERA chassis. Post a picture if you can. Did you just build a whole new subframe to hold it? What did you use for the suspension? Jag?

NJ2000R · #5 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 02:03 PM

it was already done when I bought the car, so I'm not sure who did it (ERA or the assembler who ultimately sold it to me) but I'll see if I can find out....either that, or you can look over the pics and tell me what you think....

I'll pull the tranny when I get a break....work (and kids) has me tied up for a while for now....it could be the absence of a pedal stop, as you mentioned....once I pull it apart, I'll know more....then I can hopefully find out what brand it is, and get more info on it....and if I get lucky enough, a manual would be really sweet....

Clois Harlan · #6 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 02:13 PM

Here is a post I made under "Shop Talk"/Tech Help

Clois Harlan
Senior Club Cobra Member

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Broken Arrow. OK ( South Tulsa), USA
Posts: 769
Cobra Make & Engine: 66 B&B COBRA 428CJ Enough HP 4SP

Successfully Bleeding Hyd T/O BRG
Got a tip if anyone (other than me has had trouble bleeding a hydraulic throw out bearing). After I replaced my engine I decided to go ahead and replace some of the parts that I thought might be vuleranable in time. Yep the Hyd T/O brg was the last one I wanted to tackle but I did.

Bench bled the new master cylinder first then measured and installed the new bearing (I highly recommend a transmission jack). So now after getting all my lines connected I began the bleeding process for three hours still no pedal- really starting to get pi$$ed. So here is what worked for me in about 15 minutes.

First I made sure the bleeder line for the T/O brg was at the top of the bearing. Next I loosened the bleeder screw in my top throw out bearing (bleeder) line and submirsed it in a pint jar of brake fluid setting under the Cobra. Next I loosened my bleeder valve at the top of my master cylinder and hooked up my mini-vac and began pulling a vacuum. I could see the pint of brake fluid I had sat under the Cobra and my fill reservior mounted on my firewall begin to fluctuate. After two or three vacuum pulls I closed the bleeder line on my master cylinder. I left the throw out bearing bleeder line submirsed and open in the pint of brake fluid still sitting under my car. Next I went to my clutch pedal and began pumping and within five or six strokes on the clutch pedal by had I had a clutch. I got my wife to help me for the next step which required her to hold the clutch pedal on the floor while I crawled under the car and closed the bleeder line to the throw out bearing. I then had her pump the clutch several times and hold it to the floor while I bled the T/O Brg line once again. I now have good clutch pedal and the whole process took about 15 minutes.

Those who have kept up with this site know that when I installed my FE engine last year I had plenty of problems bleeding my throw out bearing. This method worked for me and I belive it will work with other new installs as well. Untill someone finds a way to get a little more room under a Cobra with a FE and Toploader hyd throw out bearings are mandatory.

Clois Harlan

Roscoe · #7 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 05:35 PM

351W, Tremec, Lakewood and Tilton HTO bearing. I just let it gravity bleed. 16k and never a problem. I think the most important points is setting the spacing on the shaft and the pedal stop.

Roscoe

BlueRooster · #8 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 05:44 PM

I changed over to the external slave. Taking the tranny out to get to the HTB was the deciding factor. I know there are guys that swear by the internal setup, but this makes it a job I can work on in my garage and not have to pay for a lift and mechanic. The fork/linkage/slave is very close (less than one inch close)to the frame rail, but clears it fine.

NJ2000R · #9 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueRooster

I changed over to the external slave. Taking the tranny out to get to the HTB was the deciding factor. I know there are guys that swear by the internal setup, but this makes it a job I can work on in my garage and not have to pay for a lift and mechanic. The fork/linkage/slave is very close (less than one inch close)to the frame rail, but clears it fine.

....which is why I like what you did....can you get me some info on the external unit?

BlueRooster · #10 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 06:07 PM

NJ, I am not sure how close the frame rails are to the tranny on an ERA. I would call them and see what they have to say. I also have a TKO so It is hard for me to advise on parts with any intelligence....But, the slave bolted right to the bellhousing bolts, all the parts were less than $300.00, the tranny had to be removed but the bellhousing and clutch did not, and somehow, I feel much more at ease when I am more than 2 hours away from home base.

BlueRooster · #11 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 06:10 PM

One more thing, try mark at Dynamic motorsports(the SPF dealership in Ross Ohio), when I called him to tell him what I was doing he already had a list of all the parts I needed and he got them to me in two days. Tell him the engine and tranny you have and Ill bet he can do the same for you... ERA or not.

NJ2000R · #12 (**permalink**) 07-17-2003, 06:22 PM

Thanks! I'm going to call ERA and pick their brain tomorrow, and will also see what Mark has to offer....the more people I ask, the more info I get....COOL! Thanks!