Can oil pan be welded on the car??

[ColoScott]

My Shelby Cobra has developed a crack in the Aviad oil pan. The crack is in the center of the weld bead on the seam that connects the bottom to the very front bulkhead of the pan. The crack is a 3 inch hairline one that leaks about a 1/4 quart of oil a month. I would have to pull the entire engine out of the car to take the pan off so I would VERY MUCH like to try and get it welded while on the car.

Does anyone know if this can be done and how to go about it?

Scott...

[Rick Parker]

Scott:

This is a pretty dodgy subject open to a lot of opinionated debate. From a fabrication standpoint the crack itself has to be terminated before welding. This is done by drilling a small hole at the extreme ends of the crack so that the end of the crack so to speak terminates in the area removed by the drill bit. Then remove any oils to prevent contamination of the weld (gas or electric) and then reweld the parent material with mild steel rod.
I really suggest removing the pan to do it properly. Harmonics will continue to make the crack grow longer.

You could apply some sort of material (epoxy, silicone, etc???) to buy you some time and stop the leak, but it would only be temporary. Just grin & bear it

Rick

[Excaliber]

JB Weld is not something I consider "temporary". The stuff has such a long life I would put it in the category of "permanent".

IF the crack does indeed continue to grow a chemical solution (like JB Weld) will not work. Then again, the same could be said about welding it (which is something I would consider doing WITH the motor in the car).

Typically, for a crack, you would indeed drill holes at the end of each. But, it's possible the weld would be fine without doing so. Doing it "in car" be aware you may have to do it a couple of times and perhaps using different techniques. In the end, you MIGHT have to pull the motor. I think it's worth while attempting an in car repair. Thus, my first approach would in fact be JB Weld.

Ernie

[Specialk]

Scott,

I would never try and weld an oil pan on the car. I am not afraid of it exploding, but I am 100% certain that you will never be able to clean all the oil out of the crack. You will NEVER get a decent weld.

I have used JB weld in the past for such a repair. Clean the area up as best as possible with brake cleaner. Then apply the JB Weld to the area. Next spray brake cleaner on your (rubber gloved) finger and smooth outh the epoxy. It will look nice afterwards. An old engine builder showed me to apply it this way, and I have had good luck with it.

As soon as it starts snowing, you can remove the pan and do a weld repair. Removing the pan is the only way to do it right.

[Excaliber]

Kris
I'm amazed someone actually concurred with my opinion on JB Weld!

I don't discount the "old school" methodolgy, and at the same time recognize the "proper way" is usually the "best way". Most (but not all) recommendations I find from the Club are of the "100%, proper way, proffesional methodolgy".

And this is "good", but I do like to give some options for those guys that: Don't have the money or time, willing to take a chance, willing to weigh the "risk factors" or just like to "experiment". Some of the "experiments" I've tried in the past were total flops and eventually I was "forced" to do it the "right way". But every once in a while, I pull off a great repair with a very simple (almost embarrasing?) solution.

So be warned you guys: My advice is not necessarily the "best" way, it's just a different way.

Butcher wannbe, Ernie

[ColoScott]

Kris, Ernie, Rick,

Thanks for the idea and the advice! I think I'll try the JB Weld this week. You are right, the best way is to remove the engine but I'd rather not miss out on prime summer drive time so I'll do that when the snow flys if this temp solution works.

Again, thanks for taking the time to help me out!

Scott

[jocflier]

Scott;

As a welder for many years..Please take the oil pan off before trying to weld it..There are just to many things that can go very wrong trying to do it in car..A lot of good information has already been told to you; but here is one more things to think about..

The ground clamp to the welding machine. The welder needs to make sure that the clamp is as close to the work as he can get it..Do not let anyone clamp that clamp anywere other than on the oil pan..

The welding machine will look for the shortest route back to ground...What that means it that if it is clamped say on the other side of your motor; it will more than likely arc across every bearing in you motor to get back to ground..Bye bye motor..

Good luck

Rick

[427 S/O]

I have the aluminum T-pan from Branda, no cracks/problems, welded two bungs in the back for the oil temp gauge and pickup for the pre oiler. Much much better than sheet metal. Even though very small, I believe it adds strength to the lower end because of it's weight/rigidity.

[Cracker]

I am assuming that your pan cannot be dropped due to the large tubular crossmembe under the Shelby's. I own a Contemporary and do not face that particular problem but did find it a bit more difficult to pull the engine & tranny together with the front crossmember "X" between the front uprights so I had a local race shop that frabricates chasis modify it with pefectly fit flanges on the 4 bars to aid in engine installation and removal. It would even be easier to do this with the straight crossmember on the Shelby. I would suggest to take the engine out this Winter/Fall have the pan fixed and that crossmember removable for future access. Best of luck!

[BLACKJACK]

HEY, CRACKER - - -

I LOVE YOUR SIGNATURE LINE. I WANT TO HAVE A PLAQUE MADE UP LIKE THAT FOR MY GARAGE WALL - - HELL, MAYBE THE LIVING ROOM WALL TOO.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

[Mr.Fixit]

I repaired a crack on the oil pan ofmy old 69 camaro with JB weld. it lasted several years and was still holding oil when I sold the car.

[Tinker51]

Just a thought here, others have mentioned that he correct method of repairing is to stop drill both ends of the crack then weld it up. If you are going to do this in the car, what happens to drill "shavings" that fall into the pan. I can appreciate what a pain it is to pull the motor for such a simple poblem but if it was me I would do it right the first time.

[Lowell W]

I can sympathize with you for wanting to try a quick fix to get you to the end of the nice weather. If I were going to use JB Weld, I'd drain the pan, then jack up the side of the car with the crack on and leave it for a day or so, so the remaining oil in the pan runs away from the crack. Then follow Specialk's advice. Prior to welding, drill the ends of the crack as outlined above and V it out. I'd TIG weld it if possible.

Good luck.

[ColoScott]

Guys,

Again, thanks for all the advice.

For those that have commented on why the pan is hard to pull...the CSX cars do not have a cross member under the pan or anywhere near the engine for that matter. The chassis tubes that run the entire length of the car are close to both sides of the pan. The drivers side has between 2.5" and 3" of clearance to get your hands up to the pan bolts and the passenger side has about 4". I tried removing and reinstalling the pan last year when I had an oil pump failure. I was only marginally succsesful at getting the pan back on...it leaked pretty bad after a long session on the race track. I know what you are thinking...lousy mechanic skills. Well, it is hard!

You've got to put silicon on the pan, then put a gasket on the pan, then more silicon, then the windage tray, another gasket with silicon, then get a few bolts in the holes to align all the peices and then you've got to get that whole assembly up and in place making sure that the pickup tube gets BOLTED to the windage tray. Oh and by the way, the silicon will setup in 8 to 12 minutes or sooner! Then you have to get all the other bolts in fighting gasket and windage try alignment on every one of them. All of this while sticking your hands in a 3 to 4 inch area around the t-pan.

I'll pull the motor when the snow flies!!!

Be safe and happy motoring.

Scott...

[Cracker]

I had the same problem with my pan before I installed studs for the pan - what a difference! It may not be the solution for you but it made a night and day difference in my case. Once again, best of luck!

[Lowell W]

Another possible solution: Make some locating studs from bolts the same diameter as the pan bolts and about 3" long. Cut the heads off and round the cut-off ends. Clean everything thoroughly, then slide the pan assembly up onto the motor over these locating studs, hold it lightly in place with your bottle jack and replace the pan bolts. Worth a try to avoid pulling the motor.

Good luck.

[Excaliber]

,,,whew, with those clearance problems I'm starting to really like JB. HA ha.

Ernie

[Rick Parker]

I agree with Cracker, studs are to best way to go. ARP has them or you can use Dorman studs available at the auto parts house in little orange boxes. Either way, lose the bolts and make it easier on your block at the same time. Use Half height shear stop nuts ) or "Jet" nuts both can be sourced from ARP or a light aircraft maintenance facility.

Rick