Twin Turbo setup

[CobraV8]

I think about building a twin turbo setup for my 302cui Ford similar to the one shown here .

I want to use a pair of turbochargers from 2.3-2.5 litre four cylinder engines (these engines are very common here in Europe and many can be found in junkyards).

What turbochargers are suited for this application? Audi, VW and BMW use several types of Garret turbochargers, are any of these usable or are they too small?

Thanks,

Simon

[750hp]

Using turbos that the factory chose for a 2.3 or 2.5L engine would SEVERELY limit that power capabilities of your engine.

I've seen the size of the ball bearing turbo from the Nissan 300ZX (the single turbo model), and that might be a better size for you.

[MAXVELO]

you may want to consider 2 garrett T-3's. They are the ones used on the Buick Grang Nationals. Also on the "older" Ford truck Turbo diesel's 92,93,94 models. Good luck Thats a hell of alot of fabrication work. 750 HP can tell you all about HOW MUCH WORK is involved!
Gary

[ff2_emtb]

Check out www.proturbokits.com

These guys have extensive experience turbocharging vehicles, specifically the Ford engines. They may have something you can use or maybe work with you to get it done.

T.

[CobraV8]

Thanks for the information!
I found this big turbocharger that is normally used for trucks, busses etc. with engines ranging from 360cui to 650cui.



Do you think this might be a better choice (for a single turbo setup of course)?

My consideration was to use two smaller turbos to reduce turbo lag. On the other hand the 302 has plenty of low end torque naturally aspirated (compared to the small turbocharged four- and six cylinder engines around), so the bigger turbo might be better, right?

Simon

[aharris]

Simon

Jesper Ingerslev Development Engineer at Factory Five has built a twin turbo that worked well. You could contact him at FFCobra.com or at FF.

Cheers

Andrew

[Brewbaker]

Try checking out this site for information on putting togeather a DIY turbo system.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/

Check out this site for the boost calculator to find out how much boost you need to make the horse power you want.
http://www.inductionmotorsports.com/

[Brewbaker]

You have a good idea on the turbo size. A turbo off of a 2.5L engine will spool fastest and will give you generally good performance. Go with the big ones if you want a 800hp engine (yeah good luck with that!).

Take a look at any engine with a 2.5L engine in it. Volvos, Saabs and Mercedes with 2.3L, 2.0L and 3.0L all have exactly what you are looking for (T3). Don't go to big or it will spool too slowly. By the way, there is more than one type of T3. Check out that link I sent you and take a look at one of the Sticky posts.

Good luck

[VitaminC]

The Nissan ball bearing units are smaller than most Garrett T03's found in Europe. They also weren't available in EU or USA so chances are you won't see one anyhow.

The Grand National turbos are sort of a T03/T04B hybrid. Being in Europe you probably won't find any of those either.

The Volvos are Saabs are ok but have smallish compressor wheels and often have .48 turbine A/R's; kind of small, really.

I would stay away from big diesel units since the A/R's tend to be extremely large; usually over 1.00. That coupled with the high polar moment of a big turbine makes them a lot less snappy than a pair of T03's.

You should be able to find lots of the Ford 2.3L vehicles' turbos however, as there were so many of them. They have one of the largest T03 compressor wheels out there (~1.8" inlet bore) and a decent turbine wheel by T03 standards. Stick cars usually have .63 turbine A/R, and automatic trans cars have .48 turbine A/R. A bunch of people use these on 302's with a good degree of success.

Whatever you pick, make sure the shaft play isn't excessive (wheels shouldn't touch the housings) and the shaft still spins easily. If you can, pull off the turbine housing and make sure there's no sign of oil (burnt or otherwise) leakage out of the turbine end. Also, a lot of T03's crack along the parting line in the turbine housing casting; look inside the turbine inlet for cracks radiating from the tongue and running back toward the inlet. They still work ok cracked, but it's preferable to run an uncracked one of course.


Chris

P.S. - stay away from the Chrysler 2.2L turbochargers (did you get those vehicles over there?). They are small compressor (50-trim), .48 turbine A/R, and a unique turbine inlet flange. That flange means that whatever header arrangement you fabricate to bolt to the turbo, will have to be modified back to the normal T03 flange everyone else on the planet uses, when you go to upgrade.

[VitaminC]

Here's a comparison of a pair of Ford 2.3 turbos with .48's on a 5.0. Moderate boost, 93 octane pump gas. First was on completely stock motor. Second was same engine updated with Trick Flow heads (outta da box), Trick Flow Track Heat manifold, 70mm TB, and 1.70 RR's.

[CobraV8]

There are a lot of Garrett turbochargers available here that are used in Volvos, Mercedes, Volkswagen and so on.

The Nissan units are on ebay sometimes but they are rather expensive anyway.

Unfortunately the Ford 2.3 turbo engines seem to be pretty rare too.

Are there any numbers that identify the T3 with .63 turbine and the big compressor wheel?
The dyno sheet with the T3's with .48 turbine also doesn't look all that bad, so the smaller turbine might be enough.
Is this the turbo that was used in the 79 Mustang 2.3?

[Brewbaker]

IF you want to see which vehicles have which turbos, try this forumn:

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/...?threadid=4365

If that doesn't work, then try this one:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/

Go to the junk yard forumn and then select the post for the twin under a sticky. Big list of hundreds of turbos. Here's a caption:

BUICK GNX 87 3.8L GAR TB0348
BUICK Monte Carlo/Regal 78-83 3.8L carbed GAR TB0348
BUICK Riviera 80-85 3.8L GAR TB0308
BUICK Grand National/T-Type 86-87 3.8L (Intercooled) GAR TB0348 (TA48)
BUICK Trans Am 89 3.8L GAR TB0348 (water)
BUICK Century 78 3.8L GAR TB0301
BUICK Century 79 3.8L GAR TB0304
BUICK Century 80 3.8L GAR TB0308
GMC Syclone/Typhoon 4.3L Mitsu TDO6 17C/10cm2

CHRYSLER Conquest, Intercooled 87 2.6L MHI TD05
CHRYSLER Laser (Auto) 90-94 2.2L MHI TD04
CHRYSLER Laser (Manual) 90-94 2.2L MHI TD05H
CHRYSLER LeBaron 89-92 2.5L MHI TE04H
CHRYSLER LeBaron 88 2.5L MHI TE04H
CHRYSLER New Yorker 88 2.5L MHI TE04H
CHRYSLER New Yorker 84-87 2.2L GAR TB0335
CHRYSLER Town & Country 88 2.2L MHI TE04H
CHRYSLER Town & Country 84-87 2.2L GAR TB0335
CHRYSLER Charger/Shelby 87-90 2.2L GAR TB03 (water)
CHRYSLER Shelby CSX-Daytona/Baron GTC/Shadow ES 89-90 2.2L GAR TB03 VNT (variable nozzle)

DODGE 600 88 2.5L MHI TE04H
DODGE 600 85-87 2.2L GAR TB0335
DODGE Aries 88 2.2L MHI TE04H
DODGE Caravan 89-90 2.5L MHI TE04H
DODGE Conquest (Intercooled) 87 2.6L MHI TD05
DODGE Daytona 89-92 2.5L MHI TE04H
DODGE Daytona Shelby 88 2.2L MHI TE04H
DODGE Daytona Shelby 84-87 2.2L GAR TB0335
DODGE Lancer 89 2.5L MHI TE04H
DODGE Lancer 88 2.5L MHI TE04H
DODGE Lancer 85-87 2.2L GAR TB0335
DODGE Omni 85-87 2.2L GAR TB0335
DODGE Shadow 89-92 2.5L MHI TE04H
DODGE Shadow 88 2.5L MHI TE04H
DODGE Shadow 87 2.2L GAR TB0335
DODGE Spirit 89-92 2.5L MHI TE04H

EAGLE Talon (Manual) 90-94 2.0L MHI TD05H (45 trim)
EAGLE Talon (Auto) 90-95 2.0L MHI TD04
EAGLE Talon (Manual) 95-98 2.0L MHI T25 (45 trim)

FORD Mustang GT 85-86 2.3L GAR TB0344
FORD Mustang GT/T-bird 83-84 GAR (AiR) TB0344
FORD Probe GT 88-92 2.2L IHI RHB52W
FORD T-Bird 85-86 2.3L (auto) GAR (AiR) TB0344 (45 trim oil only)
FORD T-Bird 85-86 2.3L (Manual) GAR (AiR) TB03 60 trim (watercooled)
FORD T-Bird 87-88 (water) IHI RHB52
FORD Fiesta 90+ 1.6L GAR T2
FORD Escort 84-86 IHI RHB5

MAZDA 626, MX6 88-92 2.2L IHI RHB52W
MAZDA 323 GTX turbo 88-89 1.6L IHI RHB52W (water)

MERCEDES 300D, SDT, TD 78-84 3.0L GAR TA0301
MERCEDES 300SDL 78-83 3.0L GAR TA0301
MERCEDES 300SDL (Calif.) 86-87 3.0L GAR TB0359

MERCURY Capri 85-86 2.3L GAR TB0344
MERCURY Cougar 85-86 2.3L GAR TB0344
MERKUR XR4Ti 85-88 2.3L GAR TB0344

MITSUBISHI Eclipse (Auto) 90-94 2.2L MHI TD04
MITSUBISHI Eclipse (Manual) 90-94 2.2L MHI TD05H
MITSUBISHI Eclipse (Manual) 95-98 2.0L MHI T25 (45 trim)
MITSUBISHI Galant (Manual) 88-94 2.2L MHI TD05H
MITSUBISHI Starion (Intercooled) 85-87 2.6L MHI TD05

PLYMOUTH Acclaim 89-92 2.5L MHI TE04H
PLYMOUTH Caravelle 88 2.5L MHI TE04H
PLYMOUTH Caravelle 85-87 2.2L GAR TB0335
PLYMOUTH Conquest, Intercooled 85-89 2.6L MHI TD05
PLYMOUTH Laser (Auto) 89-94 2.0L MHI TD04
PLYMOUTH Laser (Manual) 89-94 2.0L MHI TD05H
PLYMOUTH Sundance 89-92 2.5L MHI TE04H
PLYMOUTH Sundance 88 2.5L MHI TE04H
PLYMOUTH Sundance 87 2.2L GAR TB0335
PLYMOUTH Voyager 89-90 2.5L MHI TE04H

PONTIAC Sunbird GT 88-90 2.0L GAR T2
PONTIAC Sunbird GT 84-86 1.8L GAR T2
PONTIAC Grand Prix 89-90 3.1L GAR T25 (water)

SAAB 9000 (16V Intercooled) 87-88 2.0L GAR TB0356
SAAB 900 (16V Intercooled) 87 2.0L GAR TB0339 (Oilcld)
SAAB 900 (16V Intercooled) 84-86 2.0L GAR TB0339 (Oilcld)
SAAB 9000 (16V Intercooled) 85-86 2.0L GAR TB0343
SAAB 900 (8V, APC) 82-84 2.0L GAR TB0321

VOLVO 200 82-84 2.3L GAR TB0313
VOLVO 740 89-93 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 740 87-89 2.3L MIT TD05
VOLVO 760 89-93 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 760 87-89 2.3L MIT TD05
VOLVO 780 85-87 2.3L GAR TB0363
VOLVO 780 90 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 780 87-89 2.3L MIT TD05
VOLVO 940 91-93 2.3L MIT TD04H
VOLVO 200 Watercooled Upgrade 82-84 2.3L GAR TB0368
VOLVO 740 (Oil Cooled) 83-85 2.3L GAR TB0326
VOLVO 740 (Watercooled) 85-87 2.3L GAR TB0363
VOLVO 760 (Oil Cooled) 83-86 2.3L GAR TB0326
VOLVO 760 (Watercooled) 85-87 2.3L GAR TB0363

VW Passat, 97+ (oil) 1.8L GAR GT15

GAR=Garrett=AiResearch, MHI=Mitsubishi Heavy industries, MIT=Mitsubishi


Note that most of them are for engines between 2 and 3 liters. These are the best size for a 5 liter because 2 of them would equal between 4 and 6 liters.

For questions about the Mistubishi turbos, Turbostangman will probably be able to answer them, because he has designed a kit with them and works with them in his business.

Most guys run Ford Knockoffs, notably the 69 trim models because they move more air in the upper RPMS, and don't run out of steam.

[Brewbaker]

You may try relooking the single turbo setup as well. Some of the newer turbos have a very good spool up rate. One guy was claiming that his Ford Powerstroke Diesel turbo (Garrett GT37?) on a 5.0L engine was spooling to 6psi at 2500 rpm. Not too shabby.