Specific Oil Viscosity Question... - Page 2

MidOHasp · #21 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 05:39 PM

I really don't think it's going up any more at 5-6K. But you're right. At 5-6K I'm usually either looking at the tach or at my passenger right before saying, "That was just 1st you sissy, we're not even going 10 yet."

blykins · #22 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 05:49 PM

Thanks ItBites....that was a very good explanation.....

MidOHasp · #23 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blykins

JP, .0025" is about right. .003" is probably good....but when you get past that, the clearances are gonna be big.

FROM THE BUILD SHEET:

R.B. Clearance: .00275
Side Clearance: .018

Can't wait to hear everyone's opinion on this!

DAVID GAGNARD · #24 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 06:10 PM

I would not worry about your oil pressure or motor life........I have a 351-W,about 350 hp,iron heads,stock Melling oil pump...... I run 10/30 Mobil 1,cold start up,steady 60 psi,when my oil temp reaches 180 it idles at around 30 psi,anything over 2000 rpms,it runs 50 to 55 psi..... When running open track events,my oil temp has gone to 230,I don't like it but do not have an oil cooler (yet),usually runs 210 to 220 oil temp on the track,at that temp,idle oil pressure is around 20 psi,at speed,my oil pressure is around 45 to 50 psi,whether I'm running 2000 rpms or 5500 rpms..... Motor now has 21,000 miles on it...... It is either on the highway cruising or on the track...... As long as I have 20 psi or more at idle and 45 at speed I do not worry about it,it's been this way for three years now.....

I switched from Shell Rotella T 15-40 to Mobil 1 and actually "lost" about 5 psi across the board when hot,idle psi is the same.........

I would say just drive it,I would not worry about the oil pressures..........

David (NO oil expert)

blykins · #25 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 06:32 PM

That's pretty good for the rod bearing clearances...I think mine were .003". Side clearance is a little on the fat side though....I think I set mine at .012". It's been about 1.5 years though since I did it....I may be wrong.

What are the mains?

Hal Copple · #26 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 06:50 PM

i have over 70 thousand miles on the custom built 396 stroked Windsor in my SPF. I have run all sorts of oil viscosities, and have studied my oil pressures at standard (for me) conditions. I believe my engine too is "loose." But it neither burns nor leaks any oil. Here is what i eventually settled on for my hard-ridden motor. By the way, it runs the same even 180 psi of cylinder compression that it did when it was new.

I run the adjustable Melling high volume pump, with the set screw turned in all the way, about one more turn. I raised my oil sumps intake about a quarter inch more once when i had my pan off, which i have done about 5 times. It was really really close to the bottom of the pan, i think hindering oil pick-up a bit. Now, by the way, i use a marine Felpro silicone one-piece gasket, never a leak.

I used to run about 45-50 psi "hot" cruise, ie, 2000 rpm, oil at engine temp. If i uncovered my oil cooler, the oil temp did not increase on the gage, but i gained about 3-4 psi due to cooler (more viscous) oil in the engine. But my oil pressure did not rise much with increasing rpm.

So, i put on my car all AN 12 lines, including a Setrab oil cooler, and ran my oil return straight into the block at the adaptor, running my Accusump into thte motor via the old oil filter adaptor's oil inlet. Basically, i have more oil flow and pressure than i need now. So, i just changed back to 10-40, and hooked my cooler back up for the summer, i have some custom Goodridge oil lines i can swap out in about ten minutes. I can run my hot oil pressure up to well over 60 psi, but this is more oil flow than i need.

I have also spun off a distributor gear at 5000 rpm, but did not hurt the motor. I am on my fourth distributor gear, they do wear a bit. But much less now with my modifications, which cost me about $500 or more, and hours and hours of work to do. I have always run Red Line, but other oils are fine, too. I don't really believe it was necessary at all, just something for me to do for fun.

So, here is my suggestion: Oil pressure is related to oil flow volume, and oil flow resistance. I am aware of lots of Windsors than have many thousands of miles with about 45 psi hot, cruise, with nary a problem. Stroked Windsors seem to run a bit less PSI than the 351 displacement motors.

If you want that extra bit of security, put in the adjustable Melling high volume, but never rev your motor much unless you have good hot oil, and pull your distributor every 10K miles to check for wear. Mine is double-pinned to the Duraspark shaft. Turn the adjustor all the way in. Run the lightest weight synthic oil (after you are will broken in, i waited to about 4K miles), that gives you reasonable oil pressure. Don't worry much about hot idle oil pressure, a low load idling engine does not need much oil to keep it warm and happy. I run 10-40 winter, but last summer with the 20-50 Redline, i had more pressure than necessary, so i plan on keeping the 10-40 year around now. Your motor may like 20-50 in the heat of the summer. A functioning cooler will add a few pounds.

I now carry on long trips a spare alternator, ready to drop in, along with a spare alternator, tools and such. I think part of the longevity of my motor is that i baby it until it is good and warm.

Just my experience.

MidOHasp · #27 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 08:03 PM

Thanks, Hal. Your posts are always a sea of good information and enjoyable to read.

blykins, MB Clearance: .003" sorry left that important one off.

Sounds like I am a little on the loose side, but nothing ridiculous? This motor is not a track motor. It will see occasional track time, to be certain. I do wind it up to 6K+ more than "every now and then" but most of the time is spent with moderate throttle, 3K to 5K RPM cruising out in the beautiful forests of North Central Ohio.

There isn't any reason for me to worry about running the piss out of this motor every now and then is there? All of the guts are forged, H-Beam rods, etc...

I do understand that it is a bit "loose" but this is not a SERIOUS RACE engine (obviously, you can see my HP and TQ numbers to the left).

RallySnake, I printed off that website and will read it word for word before I retire to bed this evening. It looks very comprehensive and is probably indeed "more" than I ever wanted to know, but it is helpful.

Looks like the Mobil1 15W50 or Castrol or Redline or Valvoline 20W50 is the best choice.

Thanks, guys. This forum never ceases to amaze me.

JP

MidOHasp · #28 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 08:07 PM

PS,

Tony, the guy who dyno'd our engine, was "thrilled" with those clearances (which should've told me something). Because when we nearly hit 500HP on the very first dyno pull, he threw all his skepticism about our setup to the wind and said we did a good job...

...but then told us about how EASY it would be without spending a ton of money to take it from 500 to 650-700.

So, obviously, this guy has one thing on his mind, and it isn't sex. It's 7 second 1/4 mile times.

"If you would replace that Edelbrock intake with a Weiand, replace your BG Speed Demon with a Holley Dominator, knock down the CNC grooves on your AFR 185's and beef up the valve springs, mill the heads to 11:1, you'd be well over 600HP."

"Great Tony, and if YOU would just find me some 500 millimeter rear tires and a 400 pound lead weight that fits nicely in my trunk, maybe I'll let you do that to the motor next winter."

petek · #29 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 08:13 PM

Ok, dumb question time...

Isn't it better to have a lower pressure but good flow (volume) than a high pressure and poor flow. At the extreme case, you could have real high pressure but no flow (i.e. something clogged up).

So, which is it, flow (volume) or pressure? (Or am I an idiot for asking?)

MidOHasp · #30 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 08:18 PM

You idiot!

Haha, obviously, it's a decent question, I'm kind of getting at the same thing. I'm assuming I have good flow as the engine hasn't broken apart.

My understanding (but then again I'm the one asking the questions here, too) is that having both is pretty ideal, but that pressure is merely that - a measure of backpressure. If you have maxed your flow at 50PSI but are running 80PSI, you just have a lot of packpressure in the system, which isn't necessarily great (not too bad either, I'd imagine at 80....maybe different at 120+).

And I would certainly be more concerned if my gauge suddenly pegged at 100PSI (it maxes there) than if it fell off to 20 pounds at speed. Either way, I'd be pulling over, but the first scenario would cause a greater sense of immediacy to me.

Just my $.01 (not worth 2 cents this time, since I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, really, just trying to use some common sense.)

blykins · #31 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 08:52 PM

Hey JP....those clearances seem fine to me. I thought when you said loose, that it would be .0035" or .004". That's what I was expecting. I don't think it's as loose as what you think....sounds fine to me. Not that I'm a pro engine builder or anything....I've built one....hehehe....But I do play one in the garage.

In my opinion everything should work out fine for you....but if you would like to see 60-70 psi on the gauge....swap your little oil pump out...

rdorman · #32 (**permalink**) 04-13-2004, 09:06 PM

That doesn't sound all that loose to me either! And of course, run that sucker!
Rick

MidOHasp · #33 (**permalink**) 04-15-2004, 09:19 AM

Wish I could 'run that sucker' down to QSL this Saturday...will be spending all day doing the "beginning of the season" checks, changing the oil, checking torques on d-shaft bolts, motor mounts, head torques (given that was the source of all my trouble for 3 months last season), blah blah blah...

rdorman · #34 (**permalink**) 04-15-2004, 09:36 AM

Just do what I did. That was my weekend plans as well. But after seeing the forecast, that got moved to next weekend.

We may be going to the Bogie Inn with Superformance and the Nobles. Sure you can't do that stuff next weekend

Rick

MidOHasp · #35 (**permalink**) 04-15-2004, 09:51 AM

Next weekend SPF is having their Spring Snake Roundup.... want to get those things checked out before the 500 miles round trip, poker rally, etc...

The car is still "wet behind the ears". At least you know yours ran right last year and so what if you don't get around to "it"

no big deal

I'm still wondering if all my bolts are tight after about 800 "not quite sure" miles last season. I'd hate for the driveshaft to come loose and lop my balls off on the way somewhere.

What time are things going down on Saturday? If I get the car back from the machine shop (extracting a bolt that broke off in the water pump that was holding the surge tank on) early enough Friday, there is an OUTSIDE possibility. Man, I'd love to get down there on such a gorgeous day and see all you morons...

JP

Lowell W · #36 (**permalink**) 04-15-2004, 03:17 PM

JP,

The driveshaft won't lop off your balls; SPF's have driveshsaft loops!

I do raise my car on stands and check everything for tightness every time I change the oil and grease the front suspension (3000mi) or whenever I have the car up for any other service. The only nuts on the whole car which have come loose are the Nylock nuts on the top bows. I replaced the bow screws with longer ones and used jam nuts to keep everything from coming apart. Other than that, I can't think of anything else coming loose on the car in almost 11K miles.

Hal,

I assume you meant a spare distributor, along with the spare alternator. Are you concerned about stripping a gear? Might it be worthwhile to fit a new gear, then just carry the gear and a pin? I've considered getting and perhaps even mounting a spare MSD box and carrying a spare stator or whatever the problematic part in the distributor is called. You could go quite a ways during the day with no alternator; at least to the nearest auto parts store in most parts of the country. I'm all in favor of carrying spare parts but space is at such a premium in these cars. I'm curious as to what other spare parts you carry but we can discuss the matter at SSR.

Lowell

Hal Copple · #37 (**permalink**) 04-17-2004, 07:37 PM

lowell, i carry a lot, hoses, clamps, alternator with pully on, sometimes a starter. But i have a back up distributor with cap and such, so that if it is on a Sunday evening, and i end up with a stripped gear (happened to me once at night), if i can get to some sort of garage, ie, perhaps a truck stop, i can drop it in.
and not have to wait for the next day to get it assembled.

Breakdowns always occur at the worst possible moment.

see you later this week.

Robert Duncan · #38 (**permalink**) 04-19-2004, 07:50 PM

JP,
I have not seen it mentioned here, do you trust your pressure gage?

If it has been "off" since new, maybe the pressure is fine and it just indicates low. If it indicated higher when new and has changed since, that's another issue.

cheers,

MidOHasp · #39 (**permalink**) 04-19-2004, 07:55 PM

Very good point. I don't trust any of the gauges except the tach! I vaguely remember Tony saying we had 55-60 PSI on the dyno and that he wanted to see more. But that has been coming up on a year now.

Gauge could always be wrong, for all I know. Hmmm...

Either way, consensus seems to be that 40-45 is OK.

Thanks, Robert!

JPguru3 · #40 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 02:37 PM

"Viscosity- Resistance to liquid Flow" textbook definition from dictionary...

With that in mind, you want to satisfy the three major requirements of motor oil, which are Lubrication, cooling and mechanical dampening.....
Use what the OEM manufactures recommend for viscosity, 10w40.

Fact it takes 2.5 times the mechanical energy to flow 20w-50 than 10w-30 oil synthetic or otherwise...i Recommend AMSOIL Synthetic 10w-40 High Performance & SDF filters..

Feel free to e-mail me directly for more info...i have pics/Data....