Timing too high???

ridelikehell · #1 (**permalink**) 07-17-2004, 08:50 AM

I don't know if this is actually a problem since the car is running fine, it just struck me as a little odd so I thought I'd see if anyone else has encountered the problem...
Basically I've got my timing set to 18*...any lower and it sputters and dies...Like I said it's not really a "problem" as far as I can see...just strange since I believe stock is 12*-14*...

Setup is a Ford 302, Edelbrock 64cc heads, and a FMS B303 cam.

Thanks all!

relaxinrob · #2 (**permalink**) 07-17-2004, 09:53 AM

your cam plays a large part in timing....if it is an aggressive cam, then you will need more advance than stock. Have you dynoed your setup to see how much rear wheel HP and Torque you are getting yet?

Excaliber · #3 (**permalink**) 07-17-2004, 10:57 AM

18 shouldn't do that with the B303 cam. It's a nice cam, but hardly "radical". 12 to 14 is normal, 18 is to much. Are you still using the stock computer? If so you have to unplug a wire connection right near the distributor before you set the base timing. Other wise the computer will fool you as to the TRUE base timing.

If not computerized, I'd check for TDC mechanically (valves and piston position) and compare that to the harmonic balancer which could have slipped and is now showing a false Top Dead Center.

ridelikehell · #4 (**permalink**) 07-17-2004, 12:39 PM

thanks i'll give that a shot

rob frink · #5 (**permalink**) 07-17-2004, 05:48 PM

..........

Excaliber · #6 (**permalink**) 07-18-2004, 01:31 AM

I'm skeptical 18 to 20 BASE timing is a "good thing", but I'll take your word for it. How hard is that thing to start when it's hot? With that much advance I'm surprised your starter still works!

ridelikehell · #7 (**permalink**) 07-18-2004, 08:26 AM

It does lag chug a little on a hot start...so assuming that it is too high, how can i get it down?...cause as i said, anything below 18 it dies?

rob frink · #8 (**permalink**) 07-18-2004, 09:18 AM

..........

Excaliber · #9 (**permalink**) 07-18-2004, 12:09 PM

Interesting stuff Rob. I would think this would apply to really radical motor setups. Hmmmmm,,,, in fact I think I'll play with the base timing on my 12.5 to 1 with radical cam and ZERO vacuum at idle motor today.

Actually, I can't leave the base timing to high for "ping" and "starter" reasons, but it will be an interesting exercise to see how it affects my idle condition.

For those that ARE having starter related issues due to "extreme" base timing:

MSD or somebody like them makes a "starter saver". An electronic device that retards the timing while the starter is cranking.

Ridelikehell I STILL think has something else going on. The Ford B303 cam is NOT a "radical" cam at all and should not be a factor in his case. Perhaps there is a vacuum leak 'causing a serioulsy lean idle condition? What kind of carb you running with the B303 cam?

concobra · #10 (**permalink**) 07-18-2004, 12:39 PM

to: ridelikehell

For what it's worth.

18 degrees is fully acceptable. With a cam this size, at idle, your not beginning to create any cyl. pressure. It 18 works use it. AS long as no detonation or excessive hard starting occurs the engine is fine.

I'm curious:

What is your vacuum reading @ idle?
What is your Cold Cranking Pressure?
Are your primary throttle plates drilled?
What is the opening number on your Power valves?

Here might be some assurance about the 18 degrees. My Cobra runs a 451 CID FE. Static Compression is 11.82:1 and runs on pump gas fine. ( Big cam , amoung other reasons, is why I can do this) I run 20-22 degrees of initial without any problems.

Good Luck in fixing your problem

ridelikehell · #11 (**permalink**) 07-18-2004, 03:18 PM

ConCobra:
-Haven't checked any vacuum readings yet so I don't know for sure.
-Primary throttle plates are not drilled.
-I have no clue what the opening number is on the power valves.

Excalibur:
-The carb is a Holley 600 DP with mechanical secondaries.
-I was having some idle problems a little while back (too lean)...Actually, I had the car set to 12* and it was running fine, and I had to pull my distributor, and this problem has really only come up since then...
Could possible be a vacuum leak but I have no idea where from?...The only vacuum line I'm running is to the brake booster...
I get the car back at the end of this week (in for paint right now) so I'll do some more extensive checks then...

As far as leaving it at 18*...I'm fine with that as long as it's not going to cause any problems...Rob's got me a little concerned about the total advance now...I think I'm gonna have to set the stops in the distributor...

Thanks so far for all the help!