Single Wire Alternators and other issues

[Sledge]

Folks:

I'm having trouble deciding if I still have an alternator problem or not.

Sometimes when I start my new BDR (351W with Powermaster 100-amp single-wire alternator, about 800 miles on the car and engine) the voltage meter goes immediately to 14-15 volts; at the other extreme it will only go to 12 volts for the first 10 to 15 minutes and then it will kick up to 14-15 volts for the rest of the drive.

Is that normal? Reason I ask is that I've already had to replace one alternator on this car, which quit taking the load and charging the battery after about the first 250 miles of driving. I had a heck of a time convincing our local BDR distributor I was having a problem but I finally did convince him, and he sent me a new one, which exhibits the behavior I've described above. Armond is a great guy and says he's never had a problem with Powermasters, and I have no reason to believe otherwise as occasional failures will occur with anyone's product. But every time I start up to go for a drive I've got my fingers crossed until the volt meter is showing 14 or so.

Otherwise the electrics are working pretty well with the exception of 1) the turn signals (won't self-cancel properly in right turns, not at all on left turns, and when I signal for a right turn the amber dashboard hazard flasher light illuminates at the same times as the green dashboard turn signal light), and 2) no night lighting for the fuel gauge. Today I noticed the electric cooling fans did not come on automatically and I had to turn them on manually. I don't know yet if that was a "today only" glitch or if it is going to be a consistent problem.

I've also managed to bump the red "master switch" key between the seats to the off position 3 times now while driving, and have cured that problem by running a small bungee cord from the inboard passenger shoulder harness eyebolt to the red key, which holds it in the "ON" position. Crude but effective.

Any helpful hints will be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill

[trularin]

If there is a load on the system, the voltage will drop. Suppose you ran the radio for a while before you start the car and the battery is down a little, the voltage will read 12.8 Volts and then creep up to 13.8 V. The max charging voltage can reach 15.2 volts.

A good test is to start the car, let it run for a moment, disconnect the battery cable. If the engine dies, you have a changing problem. If it keeps running, reconnect the battery and take a voltage reading. It should read a little over 14 V.

As far as the RTS, you will most likely have to disassemble the steering colume and replace the switch. If it is a standard GM colume, it is not that bad.

If you need details, just ask.

Hope this helps.

[white rose]

My experience with one wire alternators is you always when starting the engine have to hit the throttle to excite the alternator, if you just turn the key without giving it throttle the alternator will not start charging. If you still have problems take the alternator to any repair shop and most will check it for free.

If the master switch is a problem just remove the switch, unless required for racing why do you need a master battery switch? I have never owned a car with a master shut off switch. All circuits should be fused.

Locate the switch that controls the fans, either in the radiator or the intake manifold. (it operates on water temperature) Check for voltage, if you have voltage jump the switch and the fan should run. No voltage check fuse, If voltage then bad switch. Your dash switch just applies voltage to the fans if you want to manually turn them on or off and should have nothing to do with the thermo switch.


Look behind the fuel gage for a bulb, sometimes they fall out. When you find the bulb interchange it with a known working bulb, If you have a good bulb check for voltage.

I hope this helps.

[Sledge]

White, Tru:

Thank you for the responses, I'll try them out!

I always thought that volt meters showed battery condition when the battery is on but the engine isn't running, and alternator (or generator) output when the engine is running, assuming everything is working correctly and the electrical system isn't loaded up. The biggest loads on my car are fuel pump and cooling fans, I don't have a radio or stereo, day VFR only (well, for the most part) and I very rarely turn on the battery without cranking it up and going for a drive. Once the volt meter reads 14 volts or better, turning on the electric fans just makes it drop a needle width or so. I guess I've still got plenty to learn.

I talked to Reg's dad at BDR today and he said that disconnecting the battery with the engine running can cause problems with the MSD ignition. He also had some thoughts on the turn signals that I will try before R&R'ing the switch.

So far I haven't been able to fold my 52-year old body into a position that will allow me to trace the wires and connections to the gauges to check the lights et al. I'm now looking into the possibility of finding the fasteners for the dashboard and seeing if I can't wiggle things around to where I can see the connections.

Actually I like the master switch as I've used them extensively with airplanes, and it makes it just a little harder to steal the car. The bungee is no big deal and was offered as a tip to other BDR users if they've had the same problem.

Thank you for the info on the fans switch, I've located it and I'll check it out per your advice.

Thanks again guys, really appreciate the advice

Cheers

Bill

[tryce]

Seldge, I have had some small glitches with back lighting in the Autometer gages in my BDR and my turn signal does not self-cancel. I have build # 64 and am not sure that it had a self-cancel built in that early on.
I am always looking for a reason to take her for a spin and I am in long beach twice an month for work so if you want to hook up for a drive let me know, I live in hawthorne.
Pete

[Sledge]

Pete:

I'd like to get together and take a drive sometime, sounds like a great plan. I may have to be out of town on a road trip for the next week or so, but once I get back (or if the trip cancels out) I'll get back to you to set something up.

I'll also need my temporary registration extended, or my plates to arrive, as I'm only good through today. Armond's at work on taking care of this.....

I've been able to fix the turn signals "don't self-cancel" problem thanks to Reg's dad, but I still get that amber dashboard hazard light flashing with the turn signal light on right turns. I'm to the point where I just want to take the bulb out of the hazard light if I can do it without screwing things up. Pretty tight back there....

Cheers and thanks for the suggestions!

Bill

[Secret Squirrel]

Sledge,

I have BDR #144 from CA COBRA. I almost have it ready to fire up for the first time. While the car was up on jacks, I noticed that my turn signals do not self cancel either. I am interested in what Frank Dodd recommended to you as a fix for that problem.

Thanks,

[davidlee]

My right middle finger as I complete the turn works for me Who needs automation!!!
David

[Sledge]

davidlee:

Recommendation noted! However I'm finding that I am occasionally driving along with the blinker going, and feel like an idiot when I finally notice it and turn it off manually. I hate it when I see others doing exactly the same thing, so self-canceling is important to me and my limited abilities.


SecretSquirrel: Frank told me to remove the steering wheel and lengthen/bend down slightly the pin that is sticking out from the steering wheel inner face (and fits in the circular groove in the turn signal mechanism). I inserted a cut-off nail in the hollow pin and bent it down slightly to achieve the desired effect. If you apply either the left or right turn signal (with the steering wheel removed) you'll note a tab rise up at about the 6:30 position in the circular groove. The pin in the steering wheel is supposed to contact that tab and knock it down, which cancels the signal.

So far it is working pretty well.

Let us know when you get yours fired up, it's going to feel great!

Thx

Bill

[Secret Squirrel]

Sledge,

Thanks for the tech tip. I will try it soon. I have electrical power to the car and have tested the lights, fans and turn signals and so far the all the dash lights work properly, except for the self cancel feature, that I will look in to with your info. The clock illumination is dim, but that is due to the design of the clock.

I may get the engine started by this weekend. I am currently working on attaching the side pipes. All fluids are in, except for coolant and gasoline.

Thanks again!

[Sledge]

Pete:

I just got back from an overseas trip but I have to go out of town tomorrow for a few days, sort of a continuation of the overseas business...I should be back by early next week. Then I'm off for a couple of weeks. If it is handy for you maybe we could take a drive someplace over the holidays.

In between trips I'm trying to fix a leak in the thermostat housing. Found out that whoever installed this housing in the first place put two lock washers on one side and none on the other....and that the grip length for one bolt was a little short....I could have easily stripped out the threads on the manifold if I wasn't a pretty careful dude when it comes to tightening bolts going into aluminum parts. I've got new, proper-length bolts in place along with a milled housing face to make it flat and even, we'll see if that stops the leak when I get back from tomorrow's trip--I'm going to let the RTV cure while I'm gone.

I called Edelbrock to ask them what the torque should be for the housing, and they said (and I quote) "we just tighten them until the leak stops." Luckily I've got a neighbor across the street that knows what he is doing and doesn't mind helping, so I think we're in pretty good shape now (they're torqued to 160 in-lb).

Happy holidays to one and all!

Cheers

Bill

[Secret Squirrel]

Sledge & Tryce:

I tried the method that Frank recommended to you and I couldn't get it to work for me. Maybe my turn signal mechanism is different than yours. I found that I needed more material to the outside of the hub ring to make contact with the sensor tabs. So, I used a 5/32" wheel collar for R/C airplanes to make the cancelling pin thicker. It has a built in set screw.
Even after I added the collar it would not release the left turn signal. I knew it was making contact. I had to also remove the snap ring on the turn signal assembly and put a little grease on the shaft that the turn signal arm rides on, right behind the snap ring. You have to be very careful if you remove the assembly completely. There is a large spring and the sensor tabs that will need to be put back into place. Its kind of tricky. Use a small screwdriver to push the sensor tabs back into postion while installing the arm on the shaft. The grease did the trick! The arm and shaft are not polished smooth. Self-cancelling turn signals now work!
Hope this helps you and anyone else doing this procedure.

[Sledge]

Wayne:

Good going man, I'll think about trying that--I hesitate only because it's a bit more work than I had in mind and is probably above my skill level by a notch or two, but I think I now have a couple of weeks off (says he, crossing his fingers). So maybe I'll take a shot at it.

Have you driven yours yet? I just got back home last night so I may have missed some of your posts....

Finally got the thermostat housing leak taken care of and I'm trying to get the air out of the cooling system (I drilled a small hole in the thermostat per other posts, and loosened the water temp sending unit until coolant came out while filling the system) so I should be pretty good.

Question--when the cooling fans come on automatically, should both fans come on or does the system turn one fan on then the other as needed?

Thanks and cheers

Bill

[Secret Squirrel]

Sledge:

Yes, I have started it up and test driven it. Simply awesome!

I test drove it long enough for the fans to kick in automatically and both fans do come on at the same time.

One thing I did find before I started her up for the first time, the fans were wired in reverse polarity and was blowing air out the front of the radiator. You might check yours and see if it is wired properly. I had to correct the pins in the 2 white connectors at the fans. Wire colors should match red/red and blk/blk in each connector. Mine weren't! All fixed now!. I almost forgot about finding that!

As far as getting the air out, I just filled up the cooling system and did a couple of cycles of running engine at operatiing temp and cool down, took a few days. I keep checking the level and it burped out the air and is at a steady level now. I found that aprox. 3.5 gal is the capacity of the cooling system.

Happy Holidays!

[Sledge]

Thanks Wayne, and congratulations!

When they work, the fans are pulling the air through the radiator. Yesterday the fan light came on while I was driving and the temp did not come down. I stopped the car and neither fan was actually running even though the light was on. So I drove home keeping the speed up, got home, and one of the two fans was working. I checked and re-seated the fuses, checked the connectors, turned on the key, and both fans were working. I'm still scratching my head over this. I think something is loose somewhere (behave) but I don't know where to begin....But I will go out and look at the connectors again.

Thx

Bill

[392cobra]

Bill,
Had the same problem with the fan stopping and then appeared to be fine.

Traced it to a slighly loose terminal on the circuit breaker.Tightened it up and no problem since.

Hope yours is that simple.


MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!

[Secret Squirrel]

Thanks Bill, for the congrats.

Sure sounds like a loose or bad coonection to the fans. Make sure the contacts in the connectors are clean. Sometimes the wire crimps on the connectors themselves are bad or loose. You may not be able to see them, as they are tucked inside the white connector. You may also want to check the ground wire for the fans. Mine is located in the wiring loom that feeds the fans and is attached to the frame near the lower radiator hose connection. Mine was being pinched between the hose and frame.

I noticed too, that it did not lower the temperature when they kicked in, maybe they just maintain steady airflow so it doesn't get any higher. I don't know what rating the temperature switch is set to activate at. And I have not run it long enough to see the needle readings and take note of them. I guess I need another "Test Drive"!

[Sledge]

Fred and Wayne:

Thank you for the tips. The last couple of days things have been working well. I'll get into the fuse box and check for security of the fuse holders and the relays again tomorrow as I hate intermittant problems.

Wayne--when the fans work they work well and indeed pull the air through the radiator. The last couple of days it has been working very well in the automatic mode, coming on at about 95 C and clicking off at about 90 C. And I can watch the temp come right down when the fans come on. I think I have the air out of the system and it is not leaking a thing! Nice. Don't know how long this will last.......

Happy holidays and thank you for the tips!!

Bill