MORE EFI Questions...Tec3 vs Fast vs Redline vs Haltec

[Dennis Mosley]

OK guys, It's time for me to get the EFI FE project kicked off. I am going to use a Stack system and am now at the point of picking out my ecu. If you took the effort to pour what I know about this subjet into a thimble, you wouldn't fill it. So that's why I'm seeking your knowledge and experience.

After reading a bunch of post on this subject posted last year and before, I decided to see if we had a bigger body of aftermarket EFI users out there and if there have been some major changes since 2003.

On one thread got the feeling that if I installed a system like the FAST system, with a Wide Band O2 that I could get very close to a dyno type tune without spending a bunch of time at a Dyno shop. Is this true. It would be nice to get it very close and then only use the "optional" dyno time for some fine tweaking if I felt I wanted to get every last drop out of the engine.

My engine is a std bore 428 using edelbrock heads, the edelbrock RPM Cam and a 6al box and distributor, if any of that makes any difference.

I do not want to go "distrbutorless" which seems to be one of the tech3's selling points. I like the look of a distrbutor on the engine.

For the sake of just making my decision simpler, I have narrowed the choices down to 4 systems.

The Fast System, mainly due to info I've gleand from this site. Rick Lake & Mike Braddock seem to have have great luck with it and Mike's comments on the Wide Band O2 and tuning without a dyno (if I understood correctly) make this one interesting. The down side is it's very expensive and I'm not sure I would fully use all the bells and whistles. I do like the ability to change settings on the fly.

The Tech3 system seems to be full featured but I have read that some people felt that the tech support was lacking. Not sure if it is worth the $$$ if I'm not going to go the distributorless route.

Haltec E6X and the Redline systems...seem simple and are at the lower end of the price scale. Just don't want to go low(er) dollar and not have the control I need. Also don't want to spend a ton of money on features I won't ever use.

This is a street car so track tuning is not a big issue. Long road trips and daily street driving will be the main use.


Look forward to your input

[The Dreamer]

I can only tell you about what I have gleaned from looking into EFI for me. I plan to go EFI sometime in the distant future (thinking around 3-5 yrs). The FE makes your job much more difficult as there weren't any applicable (if any) prodcution EFI cars (read this as systems you could use) and there are not a lot of FE guys using EFI. You are blazing the trail basically. Someone told me to check out the Grand National forums for info on the Haltech. Haltech had a corporate pull back or something last year (had a note on their website) so they make me nervous. I like FAST or Electromotive. FAST has all of the features you would need and alot of racers use them. These guys basically have custom engines, sorta like having a FE. I really like the distributorless Electromotive system. If you look at the specs the ignition system is better than the MSD (or Crane or Mallory or ...)and the control you get will help with tuning. The Electromotive is just as expensive as FAST once you add the necessary hardware to have wide band O2. Finding a crank trigger will take some engineering for a FE as well. Gessford sales one but its not cheap. Electromotive is here in the DC Metro area, so poor customer support is not as big of a problem. One of the CACC member even drove his car over to the Electromotive plant and had them help in their parking lot. The also seem to be a few racers using the Electromotive system as well, so there is some outside support.

[ff2_emtb]

Dennis,

I have a FAST system on my Grand National and I love it. The Wide Band is very very handy for getting dialed in. For example, I have bascially two programs that I can load into the ECM. Program one is set for kill. 32 PSI of boost. Program two is get in and drive home while still pulling 28mpg on the way. It is very easy to use, easier if you have someone that can run the laptop while you drive around. If you get to that stage, I have some friends that are FAST wizards and can help you with the tune.

Also, I am a little biased. The guy that built my GN engine is also the senior electronics systems engineer for FAST. He does the designs for the ECM. Also, check out www.hartlineperformance.com for some info. This is a friend of mine in Florida that tunes FAST systems. Notice the Cobra he tuned on.

Hope this helps!

T.

[coyled]

Dennis, I have had the fast system for 4 years. In my opinion, it is better to drive tha car and tune it on the fly than use a dyno. The reason is that you can datalog full power pulls at 100 mph or better. At these speeds, the load your motor will see and the airflow around the air cleaner are different than a rear wheel or engine dyno. Also, all the tip in acceleration is dependent on gear ratio, car weight, traction and load. A dyno does not simulate this as well as driving the vehicle under real conditions. It is pretty simple to do, but having someone ride along with a laptop is very helpful. Scott

[DonC]

Dennis:
Give Wayne at Very Cool Parts a call and pick his brain a little. I've spoken to him about the different systems and he's been very forthcoming about their capabilities.
Keep us posted on your decision and results since I am in the same boat as you with a 428FE and keeping the MSD ignition system (both box and distributor). Looking to go the EFI route for a street car.
DonC

[Dennis Mosley]

anyone know who has the best prices on the Fast System. Out of all the replies, there seems to be a common thumbs up on this system.

I will give Wayne a call and pick his brain a bit.