427 center oiler water jacket criss craft

[John Martin]

I am going to look at a boat engine . I was wondering what the processes is for checking the water jacket , as this is where I am concerened. I am not sure yet if it was salt or fresh or anti freeze , but I may offer to have a builder test it . I do not know what test is done and if someone could explain the exact prosses. Thank you !

[MOTORHEAD]

John; If it was only run in fresh water, or has a raw water/anti-freeze heat exchanger, it should be worth checking further. If it has been run in salt water with out a fresh water cooling system installed since new, forget it !!!!
If its a block thats never been in salt water, tear it down and have your local engine shop pull all freeze plugs and do a visual inspection of the water jackets. ( if they have a borescope, even better!) then they can pressure ck it for leaks/cracks.
There are other tests that can be done ( sonic, x-ray,) but usually
a visual and pressure test is where to start.
But also be aware that marine engines lead a much tougher life than any car engine!!! Boats can't get up to speed and back off the throttle and still maintain that speed like a car can. A boat engine is always going"uphill"!! So be on the lookout for badly worn cylinders and stress cracks in the block.
"Be careful out there"
Ted

[John Martin]

Thank you for the responce ! I was able to find out the history , the owner had it since new ; 50/50 mix.
Where would I first look for the possible stress cracks ?
Thanks again..

[MOTORHEAD]

50/50 mix of what?? Is the engine freash water cooled, and if so,
has it been such all it's life? What year is the boat? How many hours are one the engine? The engine would have to be torn down to ck for cracks. You need all the information you can get so you can make an informed decision. Unless the owner lets you take the engine and disassemble and check it before you pay him
(yeah! that'll happen!!!) or he gives you a WRITTEN guarantee
that the block, heads, and crank are not cracked and are rebuildable, a marine engine of this vintage is a "pig in a poke".
What is his asking price? If it's dirt cheap, and the thing has always been fresh water cooled, you might roll the dice and buy it, but at least do a compression test. Is iy in the boat and running now? Get a mechanic to check it out for you, with you being present. Does he want big money? Do the above, plus get a guaranty, maybe do an escrow with the money.

[mickmate]

Some good points already made. If you can get the heads off or a core plug out you can get a bender light (inspection light) around the outside of the cylinders and tell what sort of environment they've been in. Check also the direction of rotation as some boat motors are reverse rotation. That means they need another cam and distributor gear. The mod to the rear crank seal is to remove the grooves on the crank so it doesn't wind oil out of the motor. Boat motors can be good if they're solid cylinders. They don't suck road dirt and keep pretty good bores and they get warmed up and run for hours at a time. Not like a car motor that might be doing 2 minute store runs. It's worth a look. Good hunting.
Cheers Nick

[John Martin]

The engine has been run with a 50/50 mix is antifreeze and water all its life . The engine was out of a running boat . I would think a 60ies era criss craft with twin 427s .When the guy is back from his trip ( vacation) I will see if he is receptive to a inspection by a shop , He sold one last year , my guess this one is reverse rotation .
I think if the boar is 423 , it may make a goog build . I still would like to know the most likly spots for stress cracks . I would pull it apart right on the spot and have a look . He may need to know what he has anyway , if its good he has a deal . He asked $1500 for it .

[MOTORHEAD]

Cracks could be in the heads, main bearing support webs, or anywhere in the water jackets. If this engine has spent time up north, it would have been winterized every year. If not done correctly, water could have froze and cracked a head or block. These are just some things marine engines are at risk for.
You say the coolant was antifreeze/water mix, so if true it would have to have been a closed cooling system(fresh water cooled)
Have you actually seen this engine? If it has a closed cooling system, somewhere mounted to the engine will be a large cylindrical heat exchanger with lots of hoses going to it and a radiator cap on top of it.
As far as rotation goes, I don't know about FE's , but I do know that 351W's require a different crankshaft for reverse rotation!!
(very expensive!, I bought a NEW reverse base engine from Ford for $200 LESS than just the crank!!)
All that being said, I think his price is way too high !! This is a 35 Year old BOAT engine with how many hrs???
See if he'll give you the phone # of the guy he sold the other engine to, call him and ask what he found when he rebuilt his.
Good Luck!
Ted

[FFR428]

The rear oil grooves on the reverse rotation crank are backwards. Other than that it's the same as a std rotation crank. Either they can be smoothed or some guys just run them with a neoprene seal but why chance a rear main leak. You can just install a std rotation FE crank. Either way it's a basic 390 internals for the 427 marine. The cam also is reverse rotation but only on the reverse engine. Figure at best your spending $1500 on just the block. I looked at one of these a few years back and the price was the same. It was fresh water cooled but raced it's whole life and pretty spent! However the marine blocks are pretty good if not to corrorded and or cracked. Take the above advise given and let someone look at it with you. Good luck, G.

[Ken Williams]

also engine rotation some spun opposite of normal.

[ERA Chas]

550,
All the above cautions are well spoken, but my thought is;
You've already got a great and pricey motor- spend a "little more" for an agressive cam and maybe some head work from a pro on these boards, to develop your already good basic package.
You'll be dollars ahead of reviving a 40 yr. old boat motor and have a monster on your hands if you want to go that far.
IMHO,

[Pete Wolff]

If the engine was salt water cooled you will know as soon as you take the heads off and see the water jackets. They become clogged with scale and rust in short order. As for the rest of the internals they are all low performance 390 style parts and the heads are generally nothing special. As was stated earlier you are buying a block the rest of just happens to come along with it. Reverse rotation or not the internals aren't worth much when it comes to rebuilding the engine for use in a Cobra.

[John Martin]

Thanks for the replys guys , this post re surfaced . I did have someone ask me if I was interested in a 427 in the summer . I was tempted to get it for somthing down the road .