Another oil post

Ant · #1 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 05:14 AM

The old flat tappet camshaft and running a good oil with the right zinc and phospheros levels question, there has been a lot of posts on this subject, and I thought I had the situation sorted with running a diesel oil a Chevron delo 400, which has good amounts of additives!

Then I read where high detergent diesel oil have different additive packages, and high detergents which may cause problems with my CP Coated pistons etc, I find this hard to believe that a special coating on pistons etc would be affected by detergent in a diesel oil like Delo 400 which going by their tech sheet is good for petrol engines as well. Here is part of the article!

Can I use a diesel motor oil in a car?
Yes, but there is a catch. Many camshaft manufacturers recommend the use of diesel oils, many even name Shell Rotella T (CI-4 forumulation) as their preferred engine oil, along with some form of Zn and P additive, such as GM EOS. The only mention I have seen as to a reason not to use a diesel oil would be the lack of friction modifiers in diesel oils vs car oils or the fact that they may contain more of the Aryl ZDP rather than the Alkyl ZDP, but on the other side of the fence, usually friction modifiers are typically only used in very low viscosity motor oils that don't have the levels of Zn and P we are looking for.

The newest CJ-4 formulations are now limited in the amounts of Zn and P allowed, compared to the CI-4 forumations most users are familar with. I would recommend adding GM EOS to these newest CJ-4 oils as well because of this or keep to using CI-4 or CI-4 Plus oils instead. If the oil says CJ-4 even if it also lists CI-4 or CI-4+, more than likely it conforms to the new, lower levels. Thankfully, many petroleum companies have realized the need for two products, a separate CI-4 and a new CJ-4. Chevron Delo 400 is one such oil, easily found in most FLAPS. Just make sure to read the label!

Additionally, CI-4 diesel motor oils tend to have more detergents, and it has been determined in the SAE paper "Oil Development for Nascar" that overly detergent motor oils can block or "clean" the anti-wear films off of engine parts. Since low detergent packages increase the effectiveness of film formation, racing oils tend to have less agressive detergent packages, which is another reason many be to consider a racing oil versus a diesel oil for your engine.

bobcowan · #2 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 11:55 AM

Use any good quality motor oil. I prefer synthetics, but it's your choice. Then add your favorite additive - Comp Cams, GM, STP.

You could also use a motorcycle oil.

Bx1 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 12:04 PM

As I understand it... (I am not a tribologist and dont play one on the internet) the newer CJ designation was designed for cars with catalytic converters and hence lower levels of anti-wear ZN ingrediants which tend to degrade the converters. I am therefore, looking for Delvac 1 5w-40 which is a quality CI oil with higher amounts of anti-wear which will provide the protection I want and since I dont have a converter no worries in that dept. I have read that there are concerns that high detergent oil does can erode the 'protective film' from engine parts... but... there are choices to be made... not a perfect world... I am also looking into quality motorcyle oils too. I am always interested in discussions re: motor oil.

patrickt · #4 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bx1

I am therefore, looking for...
... I am also looking into...

Just use this:

Bx1 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 02:10 PM

"Just use this"

Hello... and thanks for your response . . . yes I have recently heard of EOS and Brad Penn . . I do not know where Penn is sold in my area; and I will look into using Penn.

patrickt · #6 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bx1

"Just use this"

Hello... and thanks for your response . . . yes I have recently heard of EOS and Brad Penn . . I do not know where Penn is sold in my area; and I will look into using Penn.

Just go to www.amref.com and click on the "Contact Us" and filli in the Brad Penn form and a polite young lady will either call you, or drop you an email, tellling you where in your area you can find BP. Or, you can buy it over the internet at http://www.lnengineering.com/store/catalog/index.php

Rick Parker · #7 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 04:04 PM

The GM EOS as far as I know is no longer in GM's parts books. Thank the EPA.

patrickt · #8 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

The GM EOS as far as I know is no longer in GM's parts books. Thank the EPA.

Still available via AC Delco. Part 10-106, 12371532, E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant (1 pint).

jwd · #9 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Still available via AC Delco. Part 10-106, 12371532, E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant (1 pint).

Just talked to my buddy the parts manager at GM. 12371523 is not a valid number in the GM parts system, nor is 10-106 a valid AC Delco number. This is the memo I got from GM 6 months ago - "Part #1052367 has been discontinued by GM and GM does not have a replacement part or part number". He has been trying to get something similar because he used to sell alot to drag racers for breaking in flat tappet cams. He said Crane sells a similar product at twice the price. It's still only good for breaking in cams, not to use on a regular basis.

patrickt · #10 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwd

... 12371523 is not a valid number in the GM parts system, nor is 10-106 a valid AC Delco .

AC Delco still lists it as good under their lubricants section http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_vehcare_lub.htm and the folks over at www.fordfe.com are now getting it that way (via AC Delco, that is -- but I that's just from the threads, not my personal experience). Everyone on the FE forum tends to agree that it's probably not even needed with BP oil anyway, nevertheless I still pour it in (the old GM stuff). Here in the Washington, DC area it was still available, although it's been discontinued, at some dealerships as late as last week (I know, I picked some up).

jwd · #11 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

The GM EOS as far as I know is no longer in GM's parts books. Thank the EPA.

It was discontinued several months ago. There's no need to use it on a regular basis. CI-4 is still available but CJ-4 is fine as well. CI-4 has 1200 PPM Zinc and CJ-4 has 1000 PPM. This whole oil thing is not as big of a deal as everyone tries to make it.