Here we go again? Roush

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by greg schroeder

I think if you put enough engines out there with enough people abusing things you'll get some failures. Not sure why yours would do this, but generally improper break in and pushing the engine cold cause issues. How many people pick up their car and drive off cold and hammer on it? Plenty. You see guys claiming it's fine to run 91 octane fuel all the time too. We read about brand new engines going right to the chassis dynos from installers or even at the installers. I just don't get it, but hey? if Roush wants to pay for foolish use I give them the thumbs up.

Good point Greg. They've probably built ~2,000 402s/427's, and most end up getting installed in Cobras. If your going to see issues reported, it's going to be here on Club Cobra.

Just curious, what was the minimum octane you would run in your Cobra? All of the major builders advertise that their engines can run on standard pump gas, so why would Roush be any different (unless they're all wrong ) ?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I think if you put enough engines out there with enough people abusing things you'll get some failures. Not sure why yours would do this, but generally improper break in and pushing the engine cold cause issues. How many people pick up their car and drive off cold and hammer on it? Plenty. You see guys claiming it's fine to run 91 octane fuel all the time too. We read about brand new engines going right to the chassis dynos from

That's the exact reason why I do not and would not and never will build an engine for John Q. Public!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! once they got it, you can't control how they will use and abuse it (not saying this happened with this engine) and think since they have a warranty, just flog the dog out of it and if it breaks, the builder will fix it.......

The one exception I did, was a "standard" overhaul on a 351-W for my niece's husband for his old hunting 4x4 and I told him once hit hit the end of my driveway his warranty expired!!!!!!!!!!!! he may put 2,000 miles a year on the old 4x4.........

My race car doesn't go out on the track till the water temp is at 180 and the oil temp is at at least 180......I let my daily driver warm up for 5 minutes in the winter before leaving for work and 1 to 2 minutes in the summer...........

David

[Tony Radford]

Another thing to consider on the oil consumption issue is the PCV line. I installed a separator on my car. It's amazing how much oil it pulls from the line and I imagine some still makes it through.

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Good point Greg. They've probably built ~2,000 402s/427's, and most end up getting installed in Cobras. If your going to see issues reported, it's going to be here on Club Cobra.

Just curious, what was the minimum octane you would run in your Cobra? All of the major builders advertise that their engines can run on standard pump gas, so why would Roush be any different (unless they're all wrong ) ?

There are a number of stations around town that have 100 octane unleaded out of the pump in Scottsdale. I'd usually be between 97 and real close to 100 octane, but mix down to 95 or so at times if the good stuff wasn't handy. The car made 475 at the wheels on that. You'll be going backwards in power if the octane goes much higher on the tune I had. Put in 91 from the pump on the same tune and you'll be binking up some pistons while the side pipes drown out the ping noise. That doesn't seem to be uncommon for people with Roush engines, but not for me.

The fuel varies greatly even with same octane from state to state and even city to city from the pump. Go to Detroit and you can buy some nice 95 octane "pump gas". Here in Scottsdale who knows what mix of addatives you'll end up with given 91 octane "pump gas".I guess anyone could back out timing, run lower octane, have less power and be safe and send out an accomanying engine dyno on a diffrent tune. I passed on the Roush "recall" to have the timing adjusted on my engine.

Given a properly set up engine one guy in five minutes can thrash a new cold egine more than a responsible person might in 20,000 miles.

[csx4910]

Greg, I only know of the Valero station at cave creek and union hills and the station at the paviliions that can do the 100 or 110. Are there any others you know of in Scottsdale? I have found my 511 like the mixture as well of 91 with some 100 mixed in about 50/50
Ron

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by csx4910

Greg, I only know of the Valero station at cave creek and union hills and the station at the paviliions that can do the 100 or 110. Are there any others you know of in Scottsdale? I have found my 511 like the mixture as well of 91 with some 100 mixed in about 50/50
Ron

56th street and Bell had the higher octane fuel a while back. There are some places out in the Gilbert area which my brother in law buys from too. I sold him my car and he runs the higher octane too.

You can buy really high octane in a 5 gallon can to keep in the garage also. When it's time to fill up dump some in the tank and mix down at the gas station.

Here's something fun. This is a stock Porsche 996 twin turbo X50 on 91 octane fuel and 100 octane fuel. The car backs out big timing to run on the lower octane and looses quite a bit of power. This is a 3rd gear pull for the Porsche with the car in motion. It's over 55 HP loss! Naturally the Porsche computer makes short work of this to keep the engine safe, but most Cobras don't have such elaborate software and hardward for engine management.

[eddytheb]

Does roush tell you what oil to use? I know there have been allot of changes in the oils over the years and many are not good for some motors. The feds made it hard for the oil company's and lots of things have been removed from the oils. I know for some time we could not keep cams in motors and it was the lack of zinc and a few other things that were not in the oil anymore. I am very carful what oil I use in fresh builds and older style motors.


Stop by and see what we are working on @ www.eddytheb.com

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by eddytheb

Does roush tell you what oil to use? I know there have been allot of changes in the oils over the years and many are not good for some motors. The feds made it hard for the oil company's and lots of things have been removed from the oils. I know for some time we could not keep cams in motors and it was the lack of zinc and a few other things that were not in the oil anymore. I am very carful what oil I use in fresh builds and older style motors.


Stop by and see what we are working on @ www.eddytheb.com

Roush says to use 10W-30 for break in non-synthetic. I'd wonder how many installs go and stick synthetic in there or another weight, or no break in. I've always used Castrol 10W-30 natural S classification oil in my Roush 427R with the highest second letter I can find. SJ is pretty easy to find and it would have the better protection than something like SG or such.

This is an interesting link.
http://www.syntheticlubes.com/what_is_a_motor_oil_.html

Something about a street car that we fart around in 99% of the time is it makes sense to me to keep running natural 10W-30 and just change it every 500 or 1000 miles. The very marginal amount of time one might hammer a few gears on the on ramp to the freeway or make one or two car club day idle start drag passes for 11 seconds isn't going to comprimise the oil and its ability to do it's job on a properly tuned engine. On the other side of an extreme if the engine was to be put at continued stress doing laps for several minutes without relief another oil might be better. Lap cars wear out faster. Lap cars on wrong air fuel ratio break real quick.