351 Windsor: minimum 350+/350+ with stock crank,rods and heads?

[pablo63]

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That's right. I'd like to get these numbers or better with stock heads, crank and rods. Possible? I Have a D4 block that will be cleaned up, lined, bored, honed and decked. From what I've learned reading many threads the crank and truck rods can handle 500 with a good balance and assembly. The only reason I mention them is because I have no desire to go any combination of stroker so PLEASE don't even bring it up. I also don't want to spend money on a RETRO anything or increasing valve sizes. The stock heads will be ported and get a good valve job. Also I have some good roller tip 1.6 rockers I'll be using and a Eddy performer intake. (not an rpm. I know, but it was a freebie) Can someone fill in the blanks for a good flat tappet cam, carb and piston. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[blykins]

You can do it.....1hp/ci isn't hard to do, especially with a little flirtier cam.

I'd use a Comp solid flat tappet cam, about 238-242 duration. If you go with a good quality hypereutectic or forged piston, you'll have a little more valve relief depth to work with, so you can bump the lift up a little.

A Holley 750DP would be my choice for a combo like this.

I think it would make for a fun little project.

If you would want some pricing, send me a PM. I'm a distributor for Comp, Probe, etc, etc, and I can offer you some "Club Cobra" pricing. Probe has some great factory performance series forged pistons that would work great for this application. They don't break the bank either.

[madmaxx]

Take blykins up on his offer and call him. Trust me dont rely on the "techs" at comp cams, lunati, edelbrock, they are not that good or they would not be answering the phone!!! You need the experience of someone who has done it and knows what works and what doesn't when all the pieces are put together. The guys at the OEMs have no clue and only know what they are told.

[pablo63]

Thanks for the input guys. Brent I live in central KY so i'll be sure and get ahold of you. As long as your reading this and I see your a McLeod dealer, have you heard anything about the m-800. I want one for my 72 camaro and I also think they were working on a top-loader version.

[blykins]

Yes, heard about them, they keep pushing the release date. First it was due to testing, now they say they're trying to get the pricing down.

There will be several versions: one to replace the Toploader, one to replace the T5, then one to replace the GM trannies.

The price should be right and the torque capability will be up there....if they will ever release it.

[vector1]

Originally Posted by pablo63

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That's right. I'd like to get these numbers or better with stock heads, crank and rods. Possible? I Have a D4 block that will be cleaned up, lined, bored, honed and decked. From what I've learned reading many threads the crank and truck rods can handle 500 with a good balance and assembly. The only reason I mention them is because I have no desire to go any combination of stroker so PLEASE don't even bring it up. I also don't want to spend money on a RETRO anything or increasing valve sizes. The stock heads will be ported and get a good valve job. Also I have some good roller tip 1.6 rockers I'll be using and a Eddy performer intake. (not an rpm. I know, but it was a freebie) Can someone fill in the blanks for a good flat tappet cam, carb and piston. Any help is greatly appreciated.

i think much of the combo would depend on what the heads end up flowing. flat top piston will give you little less then 11-1 compression if the heads will support that with the flow, otherwise dish setup would probably be around 9-1, so you need to know which one before you get the cam which would also hinge on the chamber size in the heads. sounds like a everyday driver type street motor? i would use a carb in the 650 range unless you are really good and can setup a larger carb and feel lucky, you might need something with the vacuum ports or pcv openings also. i went down to auto parts store and bought a 600 cfm holley for about $250 for my crate 351 and have been happy with the driveability, but when i go to the track i can switch out to a 750 also. the 600 is better for the mpg also.

[Prof]

My stock 351W with mild cam and Edel Perf heads and Edel Perf 750 carb pulled 376hp without a sweat. Changed to well-tuned Holley 750 (sits in the corner of the dyno room, so no big deal) and it jumped to 411hp on the next pull. 351W are sensitive to the power-robbing tendencies of the Edel carb.

best,
Paul

[pablo63]

I'm still picking away at parts for this. There are so many bargains on parts out there. I've picked up a brand new billet Pertronix plug and play dizzy - $75 shipped. A brand new double roller Comp timing set - $30 shipped. A brand new Edelbrock waterpump - $83 shipped. I've been given an Edelbrock Performer Intake NIB < anyone want to trade for RPM? Yesterday someone gave me a set of E7 heads which I'm going to give a home port job. Slowly and inexpensively this is coming together. I'm looking at this Comp Hyd Flat cam. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL35-250-4/
Any thoughts on this cam with ported E7 heads? Will upgrade to magnum rockers and proper springs. Are new rocker studs necessary? Any ideas what dish piston would work well and keep me on pump gas? Thanks in advance. Paul

[blykins]

Too much cam for a 351W...especially to be a hydraulic.

On E7 heads, they don't have rocker studs. It's a pedestal mount rocker arm, unless your set has been converted. The E7 heads were standard heads for factory 5.0 applications.

If you're ready to buy a cam, I'm a Comp dealer and I can pick the correct cam for your application.

You need a piston with somewhere around a 12cc-15cc volume.

[pablo63]

Brent thanks. I learned something today. I guess I would have figured it out when I picked up the heads, LOL. Looks like it's pretty simple to convert. Mill, drill and tap basically? I live 3 miles from a great machine shop so I'd leave that to Jimmy along with a valve job and a little shaving/clean-up. He said he'd port one intake and exhaust runner for me and I can try to duplicate on the others. Give me something to do this Winter when I'm bored. PM sent.

[blykins]

I would just stick with the pedestal mount rockers. You can still buy roller rockers with this setup.

You're not really gaining anything by converting those heads over. Yes, it's just a mill, drill, and tap.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

This is the cam in my car since the mid 90's and I've used this very same camshaft in 3 or 4 other 351-W's with great results.....
This camshaft is almost identical to the one Ford Motorsports used in their crate 351-W/350hp when they did build that combo.......

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-443942/

Using stock iron heads, they will need to be ported and polished very well for flow, stock rods and crank will be fine, you'll need flat top pistons, mine are the four vlave relief type, my compression is 10.2 to 1 and I run 93 octane pump gas with no problems.....
I'm running a 600 Holley double pumper on a Edelbrock RPM Performer dual plane intake....My heads are the older 351-W type, 1972 castings, ported/polished, I do have screw in studs and roller rockers....
The motor will idle all day at 800 rpms, not lopey at all (which I like) very smooth idle and pull like a freight train from idle to 5500rpms........

I've tried no less than 7 carbs (all Holleys) on the highway and at the 1/4 mile track on the very same engine, they ranged from stock 600 vac sec, to highly modified 750's and everything in bewteen.....The stock 600 DP gave the best mpg on the highway and the best 1/4 mile time on the dragstrip, the 3 , 750's I tried were the worst on the highway and dragstrip!!!!!!!!!!!

This combo will get you 350hp and probably more on the torque readings and be dependable and a joy to drive and easy to build.......

David

[pablo63]

Okay. upon further investigation I have read that my original D5AE heads will probably flow better and have better chambers than later E7TE's. Can anyone verify this for me?

[blykins]

Yes, that's true...

[pablo63]

Brent, I've been reading some stuff on porting the D5's and people getting a hair north of 200 cfm at .500 lift. I'm not saying I'm gonna be able to duplicate this but if I got close would you recommend more cam than you had earlier? Also I know someone who has a new cast 3.85 crank that that part with real cheap. Could the heads support a 393 build?

[blykins]

Yes, same camshaft.

The heads (at 200 cfm) would be head and shoulders over the E7 heads. A basic rule of thumb is that you can get about 2hp/cfm if the rest of the engine combination is "right". So with a 200cfm intake flow, you could see around 400hp if the compression and camshaft were right.

Those heads would of course work with 393ci. However, I don't think you'd see much of a horsepower increase over the 351 cubes. You would see a lot of difference in torque, which is what you feel.

Never pass up cubes if the price is right. It would give you a better foundation for future improvements later on.

The 3.85" stroke is nice because you can still use a factory 351W rod and you can use a 302 piston.

If you go with the 393, the camshaft would need to be bumped up to deal with the extra volume.

[pablo63]

I can get the crank for little more than having mine gone through so I'm going to grab it. I appreciate all your help. When it's time for the cam and pistons I'll definitely be calling on you. Thanks again.

[blykins]

Glad to help.

I think you're making the right choice. Anytime you look carefully at the cost to R&R 30-40 year old parts, new replacement parts aren't that far behind. This time you get a new crank and 40 more cubes.