Solid roller failed again

[blykins]

400 lb open pressure is nowhere near enough.....I wouldn't even feel comfortable with 450-475 for a solid roller.

For street rollers, I usually go around 250 seat and 550 open.

On a hydraulic roller, 150 lb seat pressure and 400 lb open is good.

For an engine never turning over 6000 rpm, there is no reason to not use a hydraulic roller cam. There are also plenty of grinds that will allow you to make comparable power levels.

[RICK LAKE]

Bermblaster To start with that camshaft is nasty. 104LSA Narrow power band and peaky. I would love to see a dyno sheet on this motor. If Crane is still making camshafts, there are 2 hydro rooler lifter ones in the high .500" lift that will give you a rough idle and strong midrange if degreed. I am sure Comp has about the same thing. The other person I would call is Keith Craft. Keith has alot of custom camshafts that you can't buy the profiles for. He did all the testing and dynoing to get the power he wanted. The same applys for FE motors.
Getting back to hydro roller camshafts. I have been runnng hyrdo rollers in an FE motor for 5 years. There are some tricks for pushing them to a 6,500 rpm limit. I run a HVHP oil pump with 100# spring in it. I run 15-40 Rotella oil in the motor with 1 bottle of Lucas oil suppliment. Cold start pressure are in the 135# range +-3 psi. When operating at race temps, 65-80 psi at 2,000 rpms with an idle of 35-40. 8 quart oil pan, 3 quart accusump, and cooler for oil in front of car. I also run the oil 1.5 quarts over full for racing. I have the diamond canton windage tray. I like this over the solid tray because it helps spary the oil around the motor more. If I was looking for just HP, A drysump system, controlled drains, plugged lifter valley would all be looked at. Hydro lifters, I have mine per loaded to .015"-.018" on the plunger. This does 2 things, 1st when the lifters pump up at high rpms, there is no possible damage of valves being left open and hitting pistons or losing compression. 2nd it makes the motor run like a solid lifter motor from the high oil pressures.
The big thing is about matching parts for the rpm range you want to run in.
I saved the best for last, BEEHIVE valve springs. I have been running the same set for 12 years, no failures. spring have lost 8-10 pounds of closed pressure and 20 on full open. I went from having a flutter at 6,200 rpms down to 5,800 rpms because of the Erson rockers are heavier than stock adjustable ones. The motor will still go to 6,500 rpms but I don't push it. 6,200 is max chip in the MSD 6al box. With Beehive springs I got 12 hp 8 ft of torque without any other changes. The motor responce was sharper also.
If you are going to build another motor, and it's a stroker, drop the rpm limit, build a torque motor and forget HP. This motor will live alot longer, still have you changing underwear sometimes. If you look some of the guys in Engine Masters and aftermarket heads are sell beehive springs on them now. The lighter the valve train can be made the more power both HP and torque will be produced. Build a good size windsor in the 390+ cubes, a camshaft with a .550+ lift on a 110-112 LSA. Degree the camshaft 2 degrees for torque. It will give you a little lope and haul the bacon. Look at Ernies (excalipers) post about bigger is not always better, just bigger and more problems. This is a street car? If you want to talk about this send a private e-mail. Rick L.

[RICK LAKE]

Blykins Brent You know it's not that simple to pick a set of valve springs for any camshaft, solid or hydro, flat tappet or roller. You have left way to much info out. RPM limit, HP or Torque motor, smooth idle or rough. Oiling system. You know I run beehives and have heard the same issues of not enough valve spring pressures. 380 at .600" lift when new. Now down to 365-360 at room temp, give them another 8-12 pounds lower when at engine operating temps. Setup and camshaft profile are the most important. Too much spring pressure and not enough will do the same thing, kill a valve train, lifters, bend pushrods, poor running motor. I used to think that more was better, I have come to learn that a little less works better and is a safety blanket for not pushing a motor past it's normal limits. If you every have the time and money, buy a set of PAC beehive springs that are used in some busch motors or truck motor. They have a 420 pound limit with .750" max lift. A 7,000 rpm range is not out of the question with these springs. LS2 motors are spinning 7,200-7,300 rpms before valve control is lost. I am going to use these next along with small valve stems. Tell people to lighten the valve train before going to 500 pound valve springs. Again this depends on the camshaft profile. Titanium retainer and valve spring retainers all save weight and extend the rpm range. Solid lifters are lighter that hydros, again more rpms. The jury is still out of the bind clearance on beehives. I run in the .090" 's. of bind clearance. Some say that .060" is doable and that the coils help stablize the valve springs by hitting the coils against each other. Have seen video of this. I have also heard of broken valve springs too. Rick L.

[blykins]

Rick, I used some pretty general terms in my post. The point I was trying to get across was that a 150/400 or 150/450 spring wasn't enough for a solid roller of any kind.

I think this is where solid rollers get a bad name.....builders recommending weak springs, not using oil fed lifters, running cams with 30 degrees of major intensity on the street, etc, etc. And people read this kind of stuff and are not really informed.

A solid roller will have no problem living on the street for miles and miles if the "recipe" is followed.

My heart goes out to Berm, he's had some rough times lately with camshaft selection. For the rpms that he is running, I think a hydraulic roller would have been a much better choice from the get-go. I do custom Comp cams/lobes as well and it would be very easy to pick the perfect one for him where he could still make a ton of power.

[undy]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Blykins Brent You know it's not that simple to pick a set of valve springs for any camshaft, solid or hydro, flat tappet or roller. You have left way to much info out. RPM limit, HP or Torque motor, smooth idle or rough. Oiling system. You know I run beehives and have heard the same issues of not enough valve spring pressures. 380 at .600" lift when new. Now down to 365-360 at room temp, give them another 8-12 pounds lower when at engine operating temps. Setup and camshaft profile are the most important. Too much spring pressure and not enough will do the same thing, kill a valve train, lifters, bend pushrods, poor running motor. I used to think that more was better, I have come to learn that a little less works better and is a safety blanket for not pushing a motor past it's normal limits. If you every have the time and money, buy a set of PAC beehive springs that are used in some busch motors or truck motor. They have a 420 pound limit with .750" max lift. A 7,000 rpm range is not out of the question with these springs. LS2 motors are spinning 7,200-7,300 rpms before valve control is lost. I am going to use these next along with small valve stems. Tell people to lighten the valve train before going to 500 pound valve springs. Again this depends on the camshaft profile. Titanium retainer and valve spring retainers all save weight and extend the rpm range. Solid lifters are lighter that hydros, again more rpms. The jury is still out of the bind clearance on beehives. I run in the .090" 's. of bind clearance. Some say that .060" is doable and that the coils help stablize the valve springs by hitting the coils against each other. Have seen video of this. I have also heard of broken valve springs too. Rick L.

Don't forget some Titanium valves & rods too, AKA LS7.. The Eagle 4340 H-beams are sooooo heavy, as well as their cranks too. You can twist a long arm FE (482"+) past 7K RPM but you better add another $15K in light weight goodies.