Solid roller failed again

[Barry_R]

Yes that was just an example.
Data by itself is just "numbers" without adequate context.
The material displacement is common failure/wear on solid rollers. Usually shows up on the backside of the lobe as a result of inadequate spring pressure for the lobe profile - or too agressive a profile for the application. The lifter vaults off the top of the lobe and crashes down on the other side.

[PLDRIVE]

Well I will throw my 2 cents in on solid rollers.

1. DO NOT idle below 1500 for any amount of time.

2. Use a HVHP oil pump (look for 40 psi min at IDLE (hot oil), higher
better)The more oil U can push over the valve train (springs, lifters,,,,,,,)
the better. This will carry the heat away and do a better job of lubricating.

3. DO NOT USE COMP LIFTERS (Endure-X) for the street. They are not a
true pressure feed lifter. Do your own research

4. Keep valves adjusted!

5. Make sure your builder, and cam manufacture understands that this
is a street motor! ( too much spring pressure
(creates heat), too little spring pressure beats the lobes, no radical
profiles )

6. Run one season pull and inspect the lifters. If they all look good put them
back in, and when you have a total of 7000 to 8000 miles on
them (remember no cheep lifters !) take out and send back to
manufacture have them inspected and or
rebuilt as needed. REPLACE SPRINGS at this time.

In summation

A high lift solid roller will live on the street as long as you follow a few simple rules.
Use quality parts matched to your application, Idle at 1500, adjust oil pressure to min of 40psi at idle, Valves adjusted properly and often, Inspect parts as recommended by manufacture.

[madmaxx]

Oil pressure is irrelevant. Oil pump is positive displacement usually set at 60 psig relief. Regardless if you are at 30 psig oil pressure at idle or 55 psig flowrate is the same. The heavier the oil the hotter the oil will be. Melling high vome oil pumps are about 3.25 gpm where standard volume is 3 gpm.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Oil pressure is irrelevant.

Yep, pretty much... and it's not like you're hot idling at 15psi. Oh wait, I'm hot idling at 15psi.... (which is puh-lenty).

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Oh wait, I'm hot idling at 15psi.... (which is puh-lenty).

That would worry the poop out of me, but that's me. I think the 2nd roll bar makes you worry less about everything.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

That would worry the poop out of me, but that's me. I think the 2nd roll bar makes you worry less about everything.

Every major FE builder is on record essentially saying FE oil pressure at idle is {almost} meaningless. I've posted several quotes before from builders, old FE mechanics, Ford shop manuals, etc. that anything over about 6 to 8 lbs. was fine back "in the day." So long as it comes right up with the throttle, your pressure at idle doesn't really mean much with an FE.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Every major FE builder is on record essentially saying FE oil pressure at idle is {almost} meaningless. I've posted several quotes before from builders, old FE mechanics, Ford shop manuals, etc. that anything over about 6 to 8 lbs. was fine back "in the day." So long as it comes right up with the throttle, your pressure at idle doesn't really mean much with an FE.

Yes, but you have old FE parts and I have new parts.

352? 428? 427? All?

Shouldn't that make a difference? For instance, the "priority main oiling" with the CSX block is more Chevy-like than Ford.

[madmaxx]

I agree, as long as the oil makes it to the point of lubrication it is enough pressure. The pressure inside your main bearing reach 1000's of psig in the hydraulic wedge. In fact heavier oil usually causes less oil to get where it is needed. For example instead of flowing through the rocker arm bearings and valve stem orfice the thicker oil just overflows the rocker arm and drains into the head. Instead of the oil flowing through you roller bearings in your lifters it flows around etc.

It doesnt take much oil, look at your wheel bearings, There is zero oil circulation, only the oil in the grease lubricates for thousands of miles. Same with your alternator. You are much better off with lighter weight oil then heavier oil.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yep, pretty much... and it's not like you're hot idling at 15psi. Oh wait, I'm hot idling at 15psi.... (which is puh-lenty).

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Oil pressure is irrelevant.

Then can I replace my oil pressure gauge with something more useful? Like a tiny GPS. you know, like, when I'm on one of those long rides around the neighborhood

[madmaxx]

I have had a boat engine I have been trying to kill for the last 10 years with 6 psig oil pressure at idle and 30 psig at 4800 rpm. It been that way for 900 hours in addition it was verified with a gauge. Oh, by the way it has a flat tappet hydraulic cam.

[madmaxx]

Oil pressure, oil flow, oil type will not repair or correct a bad design except for Royal Purple, they have hundres of tiny littler welders and grinders that repair surfaces.

[madmaxx]

Stop with the synthetic sliding bologny. Every modern engine has hydraulic rollers and run with a fraction of spring pressure, ie 90 seat 200 open on some 4 cylinders, overhead cams, so when you load yours with 400lb plus open trust me nothing is sliding. We all know they all run with synthetic.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Stop with the synthetic sliding bologna.

Uhh, if you fry synthetic sliding bologna up in a little olive oil, and melt a little provolone over it, then dance that over some fresh baked bread with some sliced tomatoes and diced black olives, you have yourself a real treat. Yessirr, deee-lish

[Barry_R]

Hydraulic rollers are in continuous contact with the lobe, under preload - completely different situation and they'll last a bazillion miles as a result - unless you #$% up.

I do more FEs than anything else. I have some pretty decent directional data that the newer high rate cam profiles are not all that wonderful on street engines with a high ratio valvetrain - FEs are 1.76:1. It's tougher to maintain valve control as the acceleration rate increases. Milder/softer lobes are easier to deal with - lower spring pressures and/or higher RPM with a given spring. Easier on mounting hardware, and perhaps a directional lesson on solid roller selection for street use with an eye toward durability....

[jdean]

Barry, what is your opinion on using a hydraulic roller grind with solids?

[Keithc8]

There is no need to do that since there are mild solid roller grinds out there. A solid flat tappet or solid roller needs opening ramps and closing ramps that are different than a hydraulic camshaft. Just not a good ideal.

Good luck, Keith

[vector1]

pldrive

regarding flow rate, i have a crate engine 351/385 in one of the cars, and it uses -8 oil line, the pressure is read at the input on the front left side, it probably reads steady 40 lbs, less when hot. the oil is ran through the -8 lines, through an oil filter, through the oil cooler, and numerous 90 deg. bends. i don't know how this engine has survived, even hyd rollers, but it still runs fine. it is chipped to run to 6000rpm, and i haven't changed it for fear of tearing something up .

[vector1]

Originally Posted by vector1

pldrive

regarding flow rate, i have a crate engine 351/385 in one of the cars, and it uses -8 oil line, the pressure is read at the input on the front left side, it probably reads steady 40 lbs, less when hot. the oil is ran through the -8 lines, through an oil filter, through the oil cooler, and numerous 90 deg. bends. i don't know how this engine has survived, even hyd rollers, but it still runs fine. it is chipped to run to 6000rpm, and i haven't changed it for fear of tearing something up .

i guess i should have added, it could possibly take a lot less pressure to make an engine survive then believed. i could give a rats ass about the 90 deg bends or the filter restriciton, that was not the point, just part of the equation.

[madmaxx]

Who cares about your bends, once again positive displacement pump as long as the pump rv not relieving (60 psig) you are getting the same flow rate just higher discharge pressure at the pump. Trust me your filter is much more restrictive than any line.

[Skuzzy]

Someone want to explain how you can have two different pressures, in a hydrualic system, fed by the same line? I think that is what you said Rick.

I understand how a volume difference can be achieved, but I cannot figure out you can have different pressure readings from any line that is tapped off another one, unless there is some type of pressure regulator installed.