Roush 402IR 8 stack $44k ?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

...neatly ignoring the VALUE FOR MONEY concept.
...ready to run and use oil.
...ready to require Hawking with a lap top to tune them.
Other builders that supply real power figures with lesser costs have warranties also-they even honor them with generally superior customer service.
-Herman Cain.

Chas, I think what Cashburn is saying is that once you add in the alternator, carburetor, and the defibrillator that you will need once you write the check, the Roush engine is about the same price as their competitors and the Roush warranty appears to have worked for their customers who have had problems.

Honestly, I'm so confused with all the engine offerings that Roush sells.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Chas, I think what Cashburn is saying is that once you add in the alternator, carburetor, and the defibrillator that you will need once you write the check, the Roush engine is about the same price as their competitors and the Roush warranty appears to have worked for their customers who have had problems.

Ohhhh-THAT's what he meant.
So an alternator ($120) and a Holley (+/-$800) gets you to the $40-$50K plateau???-my bad.
So they build a $10K 427, add a $6K EFI, an alt and a Holley-presto $21K- maybe 550HP. Oh and you get a tag on the engine which tells you the temps and one dyno pull HP number (but NO dyno sheet) and you can show your pals at the golf course how cool you are.
Those kind of buyers gave Cash-Burn his name.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Those kind of buyers gave Cash-Burn his name.

Now Chas., was that shot really necessary?

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Ohhhh-THAT's what he meant.
So an alternator ($120) and a Holley (+/-$800) gets you to the $40-$50K plateau???-my bad.
So they build a $10K 427, add a $6K EFI, an alt and a Holley-presto $21K- maybe 550HP. Oh and you get a tag on the engine which tells you the temps and one dyno pull HP number (but NO dyno sheet) and you can show your pals at the golf course how cool you are.
Those kind of buyers gave Cash-Burn his name.

Every part of this post is false. You'll never get it, so why keep going?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Every part of this post is false. You'll never get it, so why keep going?

Know what Cashburn?
First off- I apologize for the personal insult to your (I think) screen name. Was out of line.
To be clear, I didn't single you out as a Roush dealer to dump on you. You just happen to be the only one of those that tried to explain/defend the Roush system.
Which also says something.
Let's agree to disagree. You continue your business and I'll continue to encourage non-builders to research power choices and their origins much more carefully.
Having said that, there were no falsehoods in any of my quote. A local SPF assembler allowed about 40 of us (Cobras) to coffee and chat at his shop weekly and I saw pallet after pallet of R's on the floor with the manila tags on the distributor.
Further, I used to market and write all tech for a HP crate engine outfit that used only their own castings.
427 Windsor: 525 HP: solid cam: pump gas:$10,295.
460 Windsor: 600 HP: roller cam: pump gas: $12,195
427 Windsor DRAG 630 HP: solid roller: race gas: $10,995
Aluminum blocks were a $2500 option. Could get the whole thing polished for $1300 more. Oh and Accel DFI was a $3500 option. Still not near any Roush numbers, am I?
Those were always conservative HP numbers 'cause if you sent one out that made 599HP instead of 600 they'd send it back *****ing.
They routinely made 540, 620 and between 680 and 718 HP respectively.
They went to the customer needing a water pump and fuel pump only. Warrantied 2 years.
So I didn't lie and I know what parts cost from the build sheets which I compiled and advertised.
Let's live to fight another day.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Know what Cashburn?
First off- I apologize for the personal insult to your (I think) screen name. Was out of line.
To be clear, I didn't single you out as a Roush dealer to dump on you. You just happen to be the only one of those that tried to explain/defend the Roush system.
Which also says something.
Let's agree to disagree. You continue your business and I'll continue to encourage non-builders to research power choices and their origins much more carefully.
Having said that, there were no falsehoods in any of my quote. A local SPF assembler allowed about 40 of us (Cobras) to coffee and chat at his shop weekly and I saw pallet after pallet of R's on the floor with the manila tags on the distributor.
Further, I used to market and write all tech for a HP crate engine outfit that used only their own castings.
427 Windsor: 525 HP: solid cam: pump gas:$10,295.
460 Windsor: 600 HP: roller cam: pump gas: $12,195
427 Windsor DRAG 630 HP: solid roller: race gas: $10,995
Aluminum blocks were a $2500 option. Could get the whole thing polished for $1300 more. Oh and Accel DFI was a $3500 option. Still not near any Roush numbers, am I?
Those were always conservative HP numbers 'cause if you sent one out that made 599HP instead of 600 they'd send it back *****ing.
They routinely made 540, 620 and between 680 and 718 HP respectively.
They went to the customer needing a water pump and fuel pump only. Warrantied 2 years.
So I didn't lie and I know what parts cost from the build sheets which I compiled and advertised.
Let's live to fight another day.

To be clear, the title Cashburn came from the simple fact that when we started in this business (and for me in particular) we basically lit the money on fire to get started and continue to burn it the whole way. If it was solely about the check we would have already checked out.

Yeah the engines arrive with a tag, and then in the mail with your warranty packet comes the actual dyno chart with serial number etc. In that same packet you fill out you see it's not an insurance company warranty, it's all done in house (at Roush). There's also a form to get you plate back with your engine serial number etc. on it (that will only have value to some, but it has value).

It sounds like you did marketing for World Industries. We considered their engines for 15 minutes and then started adding in all the components those prices did not include (no waterpump means no pulleys, belt, brackets, alternator, thermostat, water neck, it goes on and on) and suddenly we are at a price within 1-1.5k of the Roush price (but you still have to get all those other parts and make sure they lineup and fit etc.). Then you consider dyno claims and how they are tested, correction factor used, etc. and is the dyno number for your engine of the test engine etc.

Your prices also ignore inflation. But you can get the full polished option on the Roush for 1,200 today!

I'm not arguing, I'm stating my experience in the industry and having to put our name above the engine builder's name AND the chassis manufacturer's name.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

It sounds like you did marketing for World Industries. We considered their engines for 15 minutes and then started adding in all the components those prices did not include (no waterpump means no pulleys, belt, brackets, alternator, thermostat, water neck, it goes on and on) and suddenly we are at a price within 1-1.5k of the Roush price (but you still have to get all those other parts and make sure they lineup and fit etc.). Then you consider dyno claims and how they are tested, correction factor used, etc. and is the dyno number for your engine of the test engine etc.

Your prices also ignore inflation. But you can get the full polished option on the Roush for 1,200 today!

I'm not arguing, I'm stating my experience in the industry and having to put our name above the engine builder's name AND the chassis manufacturer's name.

No argument from me either and your point about ancillaries is fair but the price difference was greater for the power received. I think only the Engine Factory offers full complete crates with all desired ancillaries but there may be others.
I can vouch for the dyno results as I watched and documented all of them in prototype form. Any customer engine of the type that was even a little short was not 'crutched' on the dyno (by load factor)-it came off the stand and went back to the builder for tear-down. Every engine had it's own dyno sheets (up to 5 pulls after break-in) and it's number was it's number not just the prototype's.
Roush would not agree on price but if he had, every Roush would have a World block and heads...instead of Darts.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Honestly, I'm so confused with all the engine offerings that Roush sells.

The reason there are so many in that list is because they have different part numbers for a standard 427R vs. SPF 427R vs. SPF GT40 427R vs. BDR 427R etc. One company wants serp. pulleys and the other wants V's. One car can fit a given intake and air filter and the other may not.

None of this has anything to do with the incorrect title of this thread... but so it goes. I presume a couple posters on this are queuing off that incorrect title anyway.